2-3 hr nightwakes

[twogirlsmommy]

So I'm here and I must start by saying that this has been going on for a while and I truly thought it would fix itself...but it hasn't and I have just spent the night with an almost 9 month old in my bed to try and get at least some sleep which I swore I would never do. All I kept hearing in my head was Tracy saying start as you mean to go on and having my children in my bed is not how I mean to go on!  So dd2 is 9 months and I thought was a pretty good independent sleeper.  You can lay her down awake and she puts herself to sleep for naps and bedtime.  Most nights we put her down and then about 45 minutes to an hr later we get a screaming wake up that we have to resettle (give her back pacifier and rub belly)  Then depending on the night she either wakes anywhere between 9-12 and then again around 2-3am.  Most of the times these NW can last up to 2 hrs.  Now she has 2 teeth, she started crawling a month ago and can now pull herself up on things.  B/c of her night wakes and school runs for dd1 our naps schedule is off.  During the NW I feed (sometimes she eats sometimes not) I medicate (Tylenol or motrin) I use teething tablets, orajel, saline if her nose is clogged and some baby vicks, and gas drops.  PUPD gets her so worked up and last night when I tried it she woke dd1 up so then I had both of them up at 1am.  Dh is either working nights or sleeping thru all of this so most of this is on me and I am tired and need help.  I will post her last two days easy.

Tuesday: Up at 7
Nap at: 10-11:30
Nap at 2:30-4
Bedtime at: 6:45/7
NW at 7:45
NW at 11 (just a replug pacifier)
NW at 3 (just a replug pacifier)

This is one of the best nights we've had in a LONG time

Wednesday: Up at 6:30
Nap: tried at 9:30 but spend 30 minutes rolling and standing in crib so didn't get to sleep till alittle after 10 slept till 11:30
Nap:2:10-3:30
Bedtime: 6:30

Now there was no yelling 45 minutes/ and 1hr after bedtime so I stupidly thought it was gonna be a good night
NW at 11 and by 2am after waking dd1 dd2 ended up in my bed with me.  at 5:45 I put her back into the crib and she slept till 7 when d1 woke up.

[ZacsMumme]

Can she replug herself yet? I think you may need to be tough on this and at NW make her do it. Even of you start by putting it in her hand and guiding it to her mouth.

It is a cr@p age for sleep. We had to do pd a bit to get T on track too

Just wondering if she eats solids late in the day? If so try stoping all solids after 4pm

[twogirlsmommy]

She eats dinner around 4:30/5 depending on naps.  She can replug herself she just chooses not to.  I should also add that for morning naps both yesterday and today I had to do WIWO and it took her about 30 minutes to get to sleep.  Yesterday she woke after an hr and was soo crabby.  Today I woke her after an hr and 1/2 to preserve the rest of our day.

[koe2moe]

It is so hard! Can it be time for longer A?  Hugs

[ZacsMumme]

Yeah I also wondered it the A times need to be upped or day sleep dropped a little. This is when both my boys needed 1 nap capped.
I think you may need to make her choose to replug. I had to do this with T. I just popped ear plugs in and used my voice to soothe. Encouraged him to pop the paci in. He got it in a few days xx

[twogirlsmommy]

I think she needs longer Atimes also but with the lack if night sleep it makes it very difficult to push them out.

[ZacsMumme]

Try just to push the second then rather than the first - after she has had a good nap? Could that help?

[twogirlsmommy]

So today it took her 30 minute to go down for the first nap so she ended up with an almost 4 hr A time.  I woke her at 1 1/2 hrs or else we would have been on a 1 nap schedule.  Then it took her an hr to go down for the second nap and that ended up being 30 minutes long.  She then was put to bed 2hrs and 40 minutes from the last wake up. So something like this:

Awake: 7
Nap10:30-12
Nap: Started showing sleepy signs at 2:30 which I thought was early but she has done this before and slept for an hr so I didn't question it. We played WIWO for an hr b/c she kept standing up in the crib until she crashed at 3:30-4
Bedtime:6:40 (went down awake and independently no shenanigans.)

So I mean really what should her schedule look like? DD1's was so different as she is spirited and struggled to sleep independently and she was a refluxer.  DD2 is a grumpy angel (if there is such a thing lol) and as I was typing this she woke up a little over an hr after being put down screaming her head off and was completely ed off when I rolled her over and tried to help her put the pacifier back in.  I then did a little shhh pat until she stopped screaming then rubbed belly until she was starting to do the eye thing (you know when they close their eyes but you move and the jerk them back open?  She is still moving so its going to be a long night

[ZacsMumme]

Hugs sweetie...honestly in all this 8-10 months is the pits anyway for sleep. Even with a good routine. they are just working on so much...teeth, crawling (ugh with T I had forgotten all about that rubbish in the cot!) needing more A time, and 2 developmental leaps. I think your day looks good. The screaming may be unrelated to Ut/OT

I would try for 3hrs15/20 first A tomorrow and see if she settles quicker. If so, and you get a nap at/over 1hr15/20 then go for another 3-3hrs15 and see how she goes. At this age our day was longer with two good naps, or 11.5-12 hrs with one capped nap (1.5 and 1hr, or two 1hr15)

Can you do EBT if she does a bad day? Does she tack on?

[twogirlsmommy]

Yes I forgot all about the developmental leaps.  We started crawling the week of Thanksgiving (so end of November ) and now at 3 days shy of 9 months she can pull herself up on anything that will hold still long enough (including the dog) and furniture surf a little.  She also got her first 2 teeth during all of this so I feel like we are getting slammed.  Its a really good thing she is cute.  Going to try that tomorrow.  It will be hard b/c of school run but will do my best.  She does tack on sometimes but it is hit or miss.  Hoping tonight I can get a little sleep cause today I ended up melting down b/c I was so tired

[twogirlsmommy]

Yeah so we are still in the same boat and I'm about ready to head to a mental institute as 2 hrs of sleep a night is not enough to survive on.  If she wont take the pacifier and settle I've resorted to picking her up changing her diaper rocking her till she's asleep and then putting her down. Rinse rather repeat. ANd if that doesn't work like today at 5 am I put her in bed with me till 6 (when her sister woke up) and then put her back into the crib and she slept till 730!  I don't understand.  Is it me and I prop?  She goes down independently for all naps and bedtime.  Some nights she wakes 45-60 minutes after I put her down and I have to resettle.  Last night she made it till 10:30 and then we were up on and off all night.  No teeth although eating has gone to pot too.  I'm going to call the ped today although I am not dragging 2 kids out in a snow storm maybe I can get an appointment for tomorrow just to make sure nothing is wrong.  I'm so tired

[ZacsMumme]

Hugs Hun. How frequently does she wake once the waking starts?
Did she have any intolerances? - what food is she eating?

I think it's a good idea to get her checked out. It could be an ear issue or something - sometimes it's hard to tell.

If she is well you may have to just do PD, or use your voice to soothe when she nw until she puts the paci in herself and goes to sleep. At this age t would settle on his own but ended up needing us in he night to resettle. Mainly from being sick with food/reflux related business. then developmental, SA...but it got silly. x

[twogirlsmommy]

No intolerance's that I know of.  If she makes it till 10-11 before the first wake up that wake up is a good hr-2hr's long.  Then she sleeps for maybe and hr or two maybe 3 hrs if I'm lucky and then we start at the 5 am dance.  I'm pretty sure at the 5 am mark if I haven't fed her I could feed her and she would return to sleep I am just so sleep deprived and to be honest I usually try feeding during the longer nw.  My gut says developmental and SA but that would mean that dh would have to step up for a couple of nights to get us out of this hump and I don't think he has it in him.  Food is all over the place so it could be that or it could not be. blah dd1 never had this issue well she was awake all night but she started like this and kept it up till 2 lol.  DD2 played me for a fool lol.

[ZacsMumme]

I think your gut is right. I say this because I have threads on here about T when he was a similar age doing the same rubbish!!! Just when I thought I couldn't take it anymore it eased up. But, it was during bathos time I had to cap his day sleep quite a bit to stop them being ridiculous. Then once they were over his day sleep increased a bit again. (I have had to do this with both my boys during ww)

If your still replugging for her though Hun, I think you have to get her to do it herself.

What is her routine now?

[twogirlsmommy]

Her routine is all over the place at the moment as I am trying to space out the bottles so that she might actually drink a whole bottle so that I could maybe rule out hunger at night and then she is soooo OT during the day from are rubbish nights that its ridiculous.  I am replugging her but only if she is awake and screaming and then I go in replug, help find lovey, give a small belly rub and then I am out the door if she is not still sleeping. 

I just watched her on the monitor.  She started on her belly she then sat up, looked around, laid down again, grabbed lovey and blanky and is now sleeping diagonally on her back.  That's what irks me the most.  She CAN sleep she just doesn't seem to want to lol

Routine today went like this: Up all night at 5 am in bed with me.
6am dd1 woke up so dd2 went into the crib as I had to wipe dd1's butt then she and I got back into bed and she watched cartoons and I slept till 7:30 when dd2 woke and dh got home from work.

Sleepy cues started at 10 and she was asleep but 10:10 up at 10:40 but resettled quickly (just had to lay her back down) and slept till 12.

Sleepy cues again at 3, took till 3:30 to fall asleep but once again did it by herself and I woke her at 4.

In bed by 7.

Trying to keep to a 3/3 1/2 hr A times b/c I think once we hit 4 we are going to have to go to 1 nap thanks to school runs and dd1 who is in bed by 7 still.

[twogirlsmommy]

So last night was the best night so far as in I only had to help once but she moaned and tossed and turned all night.  We went to see the ped today.  Good news: Nothing wrong, bad new: nothing wrong.  He did say that a lot of the symptoms I was listing could be from heart burn/silent reflux and that they could turn up this late in the game so he gave me a prescription for zantac and we are going to try it.  As he said if it works great if it doesn't we have ticked off another box and will revisit in 2 weeks time.  So at least I am feeling supported in this and not like a crazy overtired loony

[ZacsMumme]

Hugs, I think your ped is great definately worth trialling. Did he put her on a reasonable dose for her weight? Often Zantac has to be the max dose to be effective, particularly at this age. Keep in mind to if it does make a difference that with every 500gm-1kg weight gain the dose will need to be adjusted.

If you can, elevate her cot too (I know at this age it's sometimes not appropriate, my boys were all over the cot ), try smaller feeds closer to BT, maybe a split feed, and minimal solids close to BT too. You can give pain meds too if things are really bad, but IME they just take the edge off, that is all. This is why you think - can't be pain, it makes no difference

Fx it helps, you should see improvement within a week xx

[twogirlsmommy]

So dd2 now has the cold that dh and I had so she cannot breath out her nose poor thing.  We have been on the zantac since Wednesday and we are still having NW's.  Last night they were due to gas as she was tooting while in bed with me (yes she ended up in bed with me, the first time she didn't sleep and we just go all the gas out 3 hrs later she ended up in bed with me sleeping lol)  She hates the taste and where as I see a difference in the reflux symptoms in the day its not helping at night so I don't know if I should continue.  We have gas drops and we have started to give them separately of the bottle (use to give them in bottle) as she is not finishing a bottle so I'm not sure how much she is getting.  She did finish her first bottle and burped twice so I guess the meds could be working on one end now I just need to figure out the other?

[ZacsMumme]

Mmm is she intolerant to dairy soy or wheat.. .T behaves like that when he's got an irritable gut. reflux OS a symptom of an intolerance too YK...

[twogirlsmommy]

She's been on a sensitive milk based formula since birth.....have trialed yogurt but she hasn't had any recently.  I have been introducing bread and the like but not at dinner time mostly in the mornings so that if it is hurting her I would know?  Soy I have no idea   I have no idea what we eat that has soy in it or not

[ZacsMumme]

Well I'm not sure really about timings accept that intolerances aren't like allergies. They can take up to 20 hrs to show themselves, sometimes days even! Also, the build up, so it could be a little bit of wheat was ok, but as she consumed more her body struggled to digest it. Often discomfort from food reveals itself at night. It's certainly worth considering if your at your wits end. And these days alternative breads, pasta etc are easy to come by these days for a trial period YK?

Hugs, it's so hard when they are up all night. Hope you get some relief soon hun