Support for 15 month old night wakings

[Clairehv]

Hi,
I have read a few posts on here where really good advice was given so I am hoping to get the same and see some improvement.

Our DD is 15 months old, a typical day when she is at home with me is below ( and the childminder tries to stick with it. never has a problem with the am nap but the PM nap is sometimes shorter)

WU 7am
Nap 1 - 10-10.30 ( I cap and WU if needed)
Nap 2 - 1.30-2.45/3pm

BT anytime from 6.15-7pm depending on PM sleep.- we work on a 4 hour A time from WU to bedtime, or sometimes a bit shorter if she has had a shorter nap.
She has a bottle in the morning of 150ml and a bottle before BT of 300ml and is on 3 meals a day.

Prior to 12 months regularly except for teething slept 7-7am with us having to wake up in the morning.

Her sleep has off I would say for around 3 months. We initially put it down to routine change (childcare) and some teething but it has been too long now. BT and naps are also more tricky with her wanting to be held rather than us just lying her down. We always get several standups but normally settle for naps with 10 mins.

So at BT when we lie her in cot and say night night, within a couple of minutes of us leaving the room she will be standing up at the end of her cot having thrown bunny over side and will be crying. May have to lie her down 3/4 times. Have often held until calm and laid down.
We frequently also get a 40 min WU after BT which we can just lie her down from and she will go straight back to sleep

We are also now regularly getting NW's, a good night could be that it is one NW with her standing crying at end of cot but if I hold for a while before I lie her down she will maybe settle within about 10 mins.

A more regular night is a WU between 12.30-3am and she can be awake for up to two hours.
Will stop crying when picked up. Will lie down and stay quiet but if we stay by the cot she keeps looking up or just getting straight back up. If we back out of the room she can be quiet for 5 mins but will then stand up crying again.
Last night she woke at 3.45am. I tried for 20 mins and then I confess I took her into the spare bed with me as it was my first day back at work today. Although she lay quiety, she kept changing position and didn't fall back asleep properly until gone 5am (teeth?)

Over the Christmas break due to guests I did occassionally bring her into bed to try and settle her quietly. I need to get out of this and get back to a more consistent approach that DH and I can use that isn't CIO/CC ( he wants to try- I DO NOT)

I would happily try GW and WI/WO but just wondered if there were any more details on these methods and which would be most appropriate.

Also with the standing and screaming at the end of the cot, and throwing her bunny/lovvie out, what our strategy should be.

I am back at work so need to crack this long NW.
Thanks in advance for advice

[*Becky*]

Do you think she might be UT. That type of behaviour at sleep time was always UT with DS. She is 15 months so def could be ready for one nap. What do you think?

[Clairehv]

Hi,
Well of course the day I post again about our sleep problems she does a full 12 hours last night !!

I don't think she is quite ready for every day to be a 1 nap day as yet. The only times we have managed have been when she has slept until 8.30am after a bad night and then we have been able to get her to 12/12.30pm for her nap.
Earlier this week I tried and brought lunch to 11.30 and put down for a nap at 12 thinking she would do at least 2 hours. She only slept until 1.30pm and despite us bringing BT earlier she was so overtired at BT we had a real struggle.

I could keep trying to push the am nap on or shortening it but just don't think she is quite ready.

I have been reading the 2-1 nap boards though so will keep an eye on her and try to adjust her day.

[*Becky*]

ok, good luck. FWIW it took DD about 2 months to nap longer than 1.5 hours when she transitioned. Some take a bit longer to adjust than others x

[Clairehv]

Hi,
Well yesterday didn't quite go to plan, we pushed her through the morning and did lunch at 11.30, hoping that she would nap 12-2pm.
She went down for her nap at 12 straight away as she was exhausted but only slept until 1.10pm. woke really crying. I tried for 30 mins to get her resettled to extend the nap, she would seem to close her eyes and settle on me but then as soon as in cot stand back up again.

Anyway we then had the worse BT for ages. I started bathtime at 5.30pm so she would be in her cot for 6pm, (much longer A time that then normal 4 hours) It then took 45 mins to get her settled. I then had 1 wake up at 8pm where she was really crying but did resettle after 1 Pu/PD.
She then woke at 3am however I did manage to get her settled and back into cot within 20 mins but it took me to hold her for quite a while as well as a couple of PU/PDs.
Anyway the positives are that it only took 20 mins and that she resetted into her cot rather than me resorting to my bed with her.

Will see how tonight goes.
Thanks for the help

[*Becky*]

what time was wake up yday?

[Clairehv]

Hi
E goes to my parents on a Monday for childcare.
Her day in terms of naps yesterday was
WU 6.50am
Nap 1 - 10-10.40 ( I had asked mum to cap at 30 mins!)
Nap 2 - 2.15-3.30 ( mum woke her up)

BT- asleep 7.15pm
WU 8pm really crying settled with a PU/PD
WU10.45pm settled after calpol and 3 PU/PD- asleep by 11.10pm
WU 12.30am, picked up settled in arms - slept in bed with me.
I woke her at 7am.

Biggest fail on bringing her into bed but had a work meeting today so just wanted some sleep.
Will regain my will power tonight.

Thanks

[*Becky*]

I would think part of the problem was that neither of those naps were really that restorative and being woken for the second nap after a short first one is not ideal. I would think she could be OT on that day.....I know it is really hard but bringing her into bed is going to perpetuate the night waking as well I would imagine..

[Clairehv]

Hi,
So Yesterday E only did 1 nap
So WU 7.10am
Nap 12.30-2.40pm (she did wu twice but childminder got her resettled in less than 5 mins both times.
BT 6.40pm She only did 1 stand up and resettle

Then we had a two hour NW. Woke at 1.15am, really crying and standing up, I went in and picked up and calmed her down, after about 10 mins I lay back down in cot, instantly onto knees and up crying.
Repeated PU,calm lie down, for about 45 mins, then she started really sobbing even when I was holding her, went to get some Nurofen which she took in case of teeth. Then she just kept crying, I lay down on top of our bed with her just to calm but she was crying even when lying next to me so I went back into her room. She fell aleep being held by me at 3.20am.
I would have continued with the PU/PD if just whinging but the sobbing really threw me!
Childminder text to ask if she could give teething crystals today so maybe it is teeth to a certain extent but I think this waking is habit now don't you?

[*Becky*]

Yes I do think it has probably become a habit tbh and if she is doing it on 1 or 2 naps then it does not sound like routine although she settles much better at BT with 1 nap - is that right? It 'could' be teeth/SA/the move to 1 nap but I would imagine that she is holding out a little for being in bed with you. So, choose a time when you can be 100% consistent with your approach, if you suspect teeth then medicate as you want to be confident that she is not in pain and then be prepared for a tough few nights. Hugs, I know it really sucks with these phases but you can do it as and when you are ready xx

[Clairehv]

Hi,

Her day yesterday with the Childminder was
WU 7am
Nap 9.45-10.05- ( in pushchair when they went out)
Nap 2 1.30pm- 2.40pm

BT 6.45pm ( only one stand up, no crying DH just lay her straight back down)
9pm sitting up/crying - still asleep?? PU/PD settled
9.15pm again a quick resettle

STTN until 6.30am. ( she cried out and rolled around but resettled herself at 4.30am)

So we had resolved to to the PU/PD and DH was going to do it last night so of course she slept.
Great that we had a good night but I think it is luck rather than anything we have done, so I am still planning for wake ups and we are going to be consistent so no bottle or bringing into bed.
If she is really sobbing would you say it is ok to hold until calm and then lay her down?

Thanks

[*Becky*]

We don't recommend PU/PD at this age tbh but the age appropriate sleep training methods are WIWO and GW. Have you read about them?
If she has been an independent sleeper before then WIWO is usually used and you can of course lie her down if you want (I used to with DS) but you don't pick up. I would not pick up tbh, you can put your hand on her so she knows you are there, you are not leaving her so although her crying may upset you, you are not leaving her alone to cry. If you want to do something more gradual then GW is ok..probably best to read through and let me know what you would prefer. I am v familiar with WIWO but I can get another mod to pop on if you would prefer to sue GW. The link is in the FAQ section at the top of the TS page - let me know if you have problems finding it x

[Clairehv]

Hi Becky,
Thank you, so she stands up crying, so do I not pick her up and lie her back down?..
How do I get her to lie down before doing the WI/WO method.

I have read the methods in the past and tried them a suppose but maybe not correctly. I will have another look at the links.

Thanks Claire

[*Becky*]

If she is standing then you can lay her down but as little pick up as poss i.e. if mine were standing I literally laid them back down so minimise the contact where possible. The way I did it was to lie them down as normal, then leave the room and then I only went back in if it was an 'I really need you cry'.
Any other questions - just ask!

[Clairehv]

Thanks.
I think I may have to employ ear plugs. She clearly expects to be held even if ultimately she does settle herself from awake to sleep in cot at bedtime and at the end of a NW.
If she is crying and standing from experience if I lie her down she cries harder and stands up again, so is it just about strong nerves and do the lie down, walk out and then repeat for as long as necessary.
I have a feeling it could go on for a while!
Tonight is a good night to start though, full nights slept for me last night and not working tomorrow.

What if she is really getting hysterical? Just keep repeatedly lying down?

I know that she will cry as unfortunately I have given in previously.

Thanks for your support x