6 Month Old fighting sleep

[sandraw8]

Hi -

So my son just turned 6 months on the 26 of Dec. and recently he's been fighting sleep during the day - typically I try to help him sleep after 3 hours of being awake or so. He usually gets 10-12 hours of sleep at night, sometimes waking up once to eat after 6-9 hours. He's teething right now too so I don't know if that makes it worse or not, but usually I will feed him to sleep if the timing is right or we bounce him to sleep, but he just grunts and growls and fights it so badly lately even though you can tell he's tired - he's rubbing his face, etc., but I guess he just wants to look around?

We put him to bed at night the same time and same way and around 7:15-7:45, but we don't wake him up at a certain time, although he usually sleeps until 6 or 7 in the morning. Lately he was napping around 10-11 when doing that, but sometimes he just suddenly wakes up and doesn't want to go back to sleep and he won't let you lay him down during the day unless he's really out.

Any suggestions on how to get him on a better schedule? Should I control his morning wake up time instead of letting him wake on his own? 

[Emami]

Hi and welcome!  Are you looking to get him to sleep independently or are you happy to keep bouncing or feeding to sleep?  Teething can definitely affect things, but fighting sleep could also be routine related.  When does he sleep aside from that morning nap?  I know you don't have a solid routine, but can you post what an average day looks like?

[sandraw8]

Hi,

lately I've been trying to feed him around 10:30-11:00 isn depending on when he woke up and then again at 2:30-3:30 range. The feeding to sleep hasn't been working so great either though lately as he'll sleep for like 15-20 after eating and then he twitches and is suddenly wide awake again.

I'd like to get him sleeping in his bed by himself ideally. At night when he wakes up, since he usually wakes once a night after 6-8 hours, I will feed him and even if he wakes up when I lay him down after the feeding he will go back to sleep by himself. I guess he just is used to that now since I let him cry a bit- even now he cries occasionally at bed time, but the longest he goes is like 45 minutes before he goes to sleep with me going in there every 10-15 minutes to tell him to go night night and eventually he does. I don't let him cry for too long because then he just gets wound up and won't sleep. I haven't tried not feeding him to sleep at night for a while because it never really worked - he's go 2 hours and still be awake.

Do I just need to do a similar thing for naps? I am going to get blackout shades for his room since he is so much more alert now and I think that is part of the issue possibly.

It's almost like he doesn't get into a deep enough sleep when nursing these days….I prefer not to hear him cry if I can help, but he'd kind of stubborn I feel so I'm not sure what else to do….

We followed the recommendation of our pediatrician and read Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child, but we've never been able to put him down drowsy, but awake and only recently he is able to go to sleep on his own after being fed at night. We've tried to help him to sleep when he's tired ever since he was about 2 months old. Sleeping at night has gotten better usually, but naps have gotten worse with age.

Thank you!

[Emami]

Ok so he is getting about 20mins sleep at 10:30 and 20ish around 2:30 and that's it for the day?  What time does he wake up and go to bed?

I wouldn't worry about the NW - having a feed at night at 6 months is totally normal, and is fine to feed to sleep at night.  The days are a different issue though, and if your DS is only getting those 2 short naps he will be very OT.  Have you read any of the BW books?  The issue with feeding to sleep is that it becomes a prop, and as the only way a baby knows to fall asleep they expect it every time they wake and can't settle themselves.  It looks like that's what's happening with your DS.  Tbh I don't have any personal experience of breaking a feeding to sleep habit, but if you want to teach him independent sleep there will be crying and it will be hard.  Please don't leave him to cry though, unless you recognise his mantra cry and he is trying to self soothe.  Tracy was against all forms of CIO and CC, and there is always a gentler way!  Here is some info to start with:
How to PU/PD (inc age adaptations)

If you do decide to start sleep training you can also post on the appropriate board:
Pick Up/Put Down
There are plenty of ladies who have btdt and will hold your hand through it, and I (and others) will try to help you with your routine if you want to keep posting here too.

Blackout blinds might help, especially if he is spirited.  Do you know what personality he is?
The BW "Know Your Baby Quiz" 
That can help with creating a suitable wind down routine and sleep environment.  When my DD was tiny she had a hard time switching off as anything in the room would catch her eye, so I darkened the room and have always used white noise too.  Now she doesn't need the dark room but we still use white noise at 28 months.

Ideally at 6 months you should be looking at around 3hrs A time and 2 long naps (possibly also a catnap).  It's hard to tell from your post how his A times are.  It could be that he is already OT when he goes down (thats why i was asking when he wakes up in the morning) and that's why his naps are short, but I think the problem is that he is used to feeding to sleep and that's no longer working.  What do you think?

[Emami]

Just to add, I went back and reread your first post. Sorry I had missed that you said you try to get him down around 3hrs, but if he wakes at 6-7 and naps 10-11 is it usually more like 4hrs? 

[sandraw8]

Today he woke at 7:50 and I got him to nap at about 10:45 and he took an hour nap with me bouncing him to sleep and holding him. Some days he does better like today and then others, not so much. Maybe my timing is bad- I'm not sure. I know he gets very OT when he only takes 2-3 20 minute naps because he is rather cranky and doesn't want to be put down much on those days. I don't leave him to cry alone - I always go in there periodically to keep him from getting too upset (at least at night) - I haven't tried it much during the day because it hasn't worked since I tried it initially.

I'm not familiar with all the short hand, sorry What does DS mean - probably something obvious that I should get, but it is not coming to me. ANd DD?

I bounced him to sleep again and he only slept a half an hour for his afternoon nap at 2:00 this time - for some reason he wakes up and then if I try bouncing him he fusses and makes noises and pushes away, which is why I say he is fighting sleep. Not sure how to get him to sleep longer.

Yeah, I do feel like feeding him to sleep is no longer working because he keeps waking from that most of the time too, but even when I bounce him his naps are often short although usually the morning one is longer. He almost wakes up sometimes and I bounce him a bit more and he'll go back to sleep.

I think he sleeps better in his own bed, but if you try to lay him down he wakes up immediately and cries or sometime wakes after a few minutes and cries. At night he's fine with being put in his bed, but for some reason during the day he won't really do it. We use white noise as well - either a humidifier or a fan.

I have not tried the PU/PD method - I always thought if you pick them up when they cry aren't you reinforcing the behavior? I will read up on it though.

I'll try the quiz as well and let you know the results. Thanks again so much!
 

[sandraw8]

I took the quiz and he scored highest with touchy, then textbook, then angel and spirited were pretty much tied.

[Emami]

I definitely think that between the bouncing and feeding this is a prop issue hun.  Your A times seem about right but he doesn't know how to go to sleep and stay asleep.

PUPD doesn't reinforce any 'behavior' because he's not trying to manipulate you to pick him up - he's just tired and doesn't know what else to do!  If you start sleep training you need to see it through though because if he's crying and you go back to bouncing or feeding it'll be confusing and you'll both go through it for nothing.  With PUPD you stay with him so it's a gentle method even though he may seem very upset.  Like I said I don't have any firsthand experience, but my understanding is that you try to soothe him as much as possible in the crib but pick him up and comfort him if he needs it, put him down when he is calm and continue to settle in the crib.  That's the basic idea, but do read those links and post on the board if you need some support.

If he is touchy he will be sensitive and easily stimulated, so I would persevere with the blackouts and white noise.  Dark and loud!  Have you tried extending his naps?  It might be worth trying W2S or HTTJ to see if you can get him through sleep cycles
How to address habitual wakings (w2s and other methods)

W2S = wake to sleep
HTTJ = hold through the jolts
DS/DD = dear son / daughter
Have a look at this, you will see them around a lot 
Site Acronyms/Abbreviations - What they are, and what they mean.

[sandraw8]

Is it normal that he does pretty well at night, but can't seem to do it during the day? He's only fallen asleep once by himself when I laid him down in his bed- sometimes HTTJ does work, but not if he gets himself too awake unfortunately. I appreciate you taking the time to help advise me. It's become rather frustrating for me and probably for my DS too. Even when bouncing him he'll grunt and growl and eventually he goes to sleep.

He used to go to sleep a lot more easily it seems like to me, but now that he's older he's more alert and doesn't want to I think.

If I start PU/PD for naps do I need to do that at night too? What I do at night works pretty well and I don't want to mess with his routine there since he finally has it down pretty well.

[Emami]

Totally normal that day and night sleep are different!  It can often take a while for naps to catch up with nights.  And also normal that he doesn't fall asleep as easily as he used to.  I think with my DD she was done with the sleep anywhere any time phase by about 6 weeks, and after about 6 months I couldn't get a nap in the stroller any more either because she is too nosy!

Do you need to do PUPD at night?  If he's going down well and going back to sleep after a NF I'd keep doing what you're doing!  You would use PUPD if he was up crying and not resettling but that's not the case at night?

[sandraw8]

Well thank you very much for responding to me questions! Yeah, what we do at night seems to work - I just wish he could go back to sleep without needing the feeding contact because sometimes he does wake more than once a night (teeth pain maybe?), but I guess at least he usually can when I do it that way. I can when he's doing his fake cry, but I still get him because I hate to just leave him, you know? I suppose it all takes time - the stuff you don't realize about having a baby lol. Wish someone would've told me earlier on - I would've done things a bit differently probably.

 I'll just get the blackout shades and start working on putting him down to sleep during the day and hopefully it will work eventually. Thanks again!

[Emami]

Good luck!  Let us know how you get on and post on the PUPD if you need some support