5.5 MO boy night waking...affected by new EASY schedule?

[didiosa1980]

For 5 months I AP'd my LO. He has never slept in his crib. We fed on demand. He slept with mommy. His feeding times had no pattern. Now that we're trying to put him in a Montessori daycare, which uses TBW techniques, they want him to be able to self-soothe and fall asleep on his own in a crib.

Right after Christmas 2013, I bought the book and started his EASY. Of course this was hard, but in week two he is doing awesome. He will fall asleep with little PU/PD and mostly a shush/pat. He has never used a pacifier and the few times we've used it, it has never taken very well. He will use his fingers and thumb more or mommy's hand until he falls asleep (I hope this is not a prop possibility??) He lacks the dexterity to put the pacifier in his mouth, so we don't use it for fear of props. We have a noise machine that seems to work very well and have used that within the last few days (although I fear it might be a prop, husband isn't worried because he considers it a background noise).

His EASY has no definite time schedule because he was originally on a 3'ish awake hour...so going by the routine hours, he might be closer to a 3 hr EASY than the 4/4 he 'should' be on for his age range. We are mainly trying to get him comfortable and at ease with sleeping in his crib. However, both husband and I work around 7 AM so LO is usually awake/woken around 5:30 - 6'ish and at gma's around 7 till almost 5. His bedtime we are trying to keep to the 6:30 - 7 PM range. He eats around 3.5 oz from either breast or bottle and that's his limit.

Background done. This is the issue I have: I. AM. SO. TIRED! Even co-sleeping wasn't this exhausting! I know having no good EASY schedule and going by his cues doesn't help his night wakings...but I'm trying to tackle things by the 'greatest evil' first. Last night LO woke up about every hour or every other hour. I tried to shush/pat and was successful twice. Other three wakings, I fed him and these were around 3 hours apart....this was also to try and raise up my supply which has tanked drastically from the stress and the lack of constant suckle.

TBW book says if the daytime sleep is good, the nighttime might work itself out. His night wakings aren't so easy to shush/pat...the two I did took almost 45 minutes a piece before he calmed. This was with the noise machine, my fingers, his fingers, and a little pacifier work. For his age range, I saw he should be getting around 14 hours night and day. His naps range from 1 - 2 sleep cycles, maybe 3 or 4 naps a day (until we can consolidate this to the 4/4). If I feed him after 2.5 - 3 hours, he goes down within mere minutes. I know we are getting close to the 6 month growth spurt and he has been drooling since 3 months, but no teeth yet. No solids yet...no reflux issues either.

How can I work on his night wakings to get at least 2 - 3 sleep cycles from him consistantly?? I don't think he is ready for 1 feed within a 7 PM to 6 AM sleep cycle; I don't mind 2 feedings overnight for now and space them out 4 - 5 hours. It just feels like we're missing something with the PU/PD and shush/pat routine for his night stuff. Anyone have something that worked with their LO??

[Skadiver13]

Hi Hun, sorry I missed this post.

White noise is generally not considered a prop. The only time it could be considered one is if for instance he CAN"T fall asleep with out it or wakes if for some reason it shuts off. My LO is almost 2 and he still has it in his room but can sleep with out it.

For your EASY it's a bit hard as at this age you really want to stick with a 12hr day but I can see that's tough. Is there anyway not to wake him till right before you leave and then get Grandma to feed etc? How old exactly is your lo? I would work on getting him on a 4hr EASY which may help your sanity and then start spacing his feeds to be atleast 4hrs apart.  So basically once you know he can go 4hrs in the day between feeds then he can do that at night. So if he wakes before 4hrs has passed since his last feed you resettle him using shush/pat. You'll need to resettle him exactly the same way each time and not give in and feed or rock or bring in to your bed. eventually he'll figure out that he's not going to get what he wants and stop waking. 

What is your current EASY?

[didiosa1980]

For his EASY, we had already done a 615 AM wake and that's as close to getting him up and out of the house before running late as is. If I don't feed him, I run the risk of my supply going down even further (which I am starting supplements to help). The Friday EASY was:
W+E 6:15
A 6:30'ish (including car ride to gma's)
S 7:45 down for nap
   8AM no nap
E 8:10 3oz
A 8:30
S 8:40 + soothing ...1.5 hour sleep
W+E 10:00 3oz
A 10:15
S 12:15...30 min
   12:45 up
E 1:00 PM 3 oz
A 1:15
S 2:15
   2:45 actual sleep...35 min
E 3:30 3 oz  (here because he fell asleep on gma, she put him in his crib <big mistake I know> thinking he would sleep, but he didn't
A 4PM
S put down around 5:15 ish, but nothing
E 6:09 both sides
A 6:30
S 7:02 <-It must be noted that we totally screwed up by thinking he was okay to sleep with mommy because he was sleeping okay in his crib at daytime. Today we have pretty much gone back about 1.5 weeks to day 3 of the EASY routine. >_<;

Ideally, I want him to be on the 4/4, but I know you have to build up on it. My husband thinks that because he's in that age group, that suddenly he can go that long. LO is not napping consistently the time needed for him to be good in the evening. The only problem is, by the time I get off work at 4:15 and pick up LO, it's almost 5 (not including a trip to the grocery store). By the time we get home, that puts it around 5:20 and I could put him right in bed, but I think he misses the mommy connection and he hasn't wanted to go down in the evening when I try. We do the same thing consistently whenever he wakes up. We do try for as long as possible, I think an hour was our longest, before LO ran over his time and we just started the EASY over.
I think that since he has been pulling 3 hour shifts, that we should use the 3 -> 4 outline in the book. Some days LO can do more than the 3/3(?) shift and sometimes not. Right now though, since we let him sleep with me last night, we're almost back to square one on telling him that his crib is the only place he can sleep. 

[Skadiver13]

Hi hun, it sounds like you have a lot going on. I honestly think posting over on the EASY board may be more worthwhile for you since you might need some extra eyes. The ladies there might have more experience with switching to a 4hr easy on a schedule such as yours. Not trying to pass you off but I'm just not sure I've got the right advice for you. I'll ask some ladies to take a peak and see if they have any suggestions but try posting on the EASY board as well.

[didiosa1980]

I'll check over there... I don't know our baby's temperament, but I'm thinking that since we have such a crier for the crib and he is so resistant, maybe we have a Spirited baby? Should I post here about that or is there a section that deals with Spirited babies and night wakings?

[Skadiver13]

Hi hun I would take the know your baby quiz.
The BW "Know Your Baby Quiz"

Also there is a spirited page:
Raising the spirited child 0-4 years thread no. 3

I'm happy to help with the night wakings but it sounds more like a feeding issue trying to get him to feed more during the day and moving him to a 4hr EASY

[didiosa1980]

I found the quiz and took it. He's supposed to be a Textbook baby or Angel baby but no way is he that! I know we probably created a Grumpy somewhere along the line and I'm trying to figure out how we can get out of that!

[Skadiver13]

Hi hun you dont create the type of baby they are . They are what they are. When it comes to most things my lo is textbook but sleep he is definitely spirited.

[didiosa1980]

Well then, there's no way he's an angel baby! He's the grumpiest when being put in his crib; otherwise he's standard textbook via the quiz. Which forum section do I wanna go for serious regression?

[Skadiver13]

Sorry my computer's been broken finally got it fixed. I'm not sure what you mean what forum? I thuink the best thing to do is start prioritizing what you want to work on. If you want to start stretching his day so he's on a 4hr easy that may help with naps and any UT wakings at night. Secondly you'll want to work on ST if he's not settling at naps and BT by himself.

[didiosa1980]

what does ST stand for? I'm not familiar with all of the abbreviations yet. I checked with the other forums for his times and we have extended him past the 4hr easy per a suggestion. we are still having serious bedtime night screaming though and still trying to figure out desperately what is causing this. we made sure he was tanked up for the evening, changed and warm clothing, with a dark room for nighttime sleep. he seems very apprehensive about something but we were not sure if the room might be causing issues...? we have not let him CUP or done any CC that I'm aware of. We're trying the 4s, but tonight is having zero luck. He's been up 3 hours on 45 mins of the last nap. He prqactically falls asleep at the boob, but refuses to sleep in the crib. Just seems like weakve read something wrong or aren't doing something necessary to keep the ear-splitting screaming down.

[Skadiver13]

ST is sleep training. If he is not yet going to sleep independently then I would think that would be the next step for you to work on.  Have you read up on Shush/pat and Pick Up Put Down?

[didiosa1980]

We've poured over the 4S's multiple times. We will occasionally swaddle, but LO doesn't require it all the time, especially if he has a sleep sack on. Sometimes it seems to help and sometimes not. I did a lot of PU/PD overnight last night during his 5-6 wakings from 7PM-6AM hours and there was no screaming, but a lot of whining (which is a step in the right direction). During his wakings, I managed to PU/PD and pat and put him back to sleep within 20 minutes (also a step in the right direction). Now, I probably held him longer than the 1-2 minutes in the book, but a lot of times when he is calmer, but still whining, it does no good to put him down just because "time is up". I had a lot more success last night to let him be totally silent and then put him down, regardless of time. I held him and rubbed my hand on his back and waited until he had slouched against me. Then I slowly put him in his crib and 'went in with him' with my upper chest so he still felt like he was being held.
Is there any way people can record their bedtime attempts and post it on the forum?? It just seems like showing what we attempt would get so much more on what we're (not) doing and how we could better each crib attempt.
Right now, the biggest challenge is getting him to go into the crib without fussing. It's the en route from mommy/daddy to the crib that we can't get and the first few minutes of being in the crib. Aside from practice, practice, practice, I don't know what we can do to help him. Last night, we attempted a 6:30 PM bedtime and he screamed. I tried to review what we weren't doing. We kept him up and I tried feeding him again. He practically fell asleep during this. After about 7 minutes, I took him off and walked him around for some A. He pretty much fell asleep during this and when I put him in his crib, he didn't make any sound.
There seems to be something we're missing for all crib attempts. We haven't gotten him a great EASY to work with and he IS probably going through his 6 mo spurt, so I assume that isn't helping either?

[Skadiver13]

Hi hun I would take a look at the PUPD section there is a lot of great info there. The idea is to get him to the point he can go to sleep on his own and self settle when he wakes at night. That's what makes it easier to knwo if he's waking due to a routine issue/hunger or something else if you know he can ss otherwise. I would stick with the pupd it can take a bit of time to complete, stay consistent and you'll get there. Make sure you are not giving in and feeding to sleep etc in times that he's not actually hungry. And no the SA isn't going to help during this time ether.

[didiosa1980]

I just did about a second round 30 min PU/PD session tonight. Sadly, he peed on his clothes and I wanted him in dry, warm stuff for the evening...except that killed the mood and made it hard to do anything. We did a 30 minute PU/PD and he was starting to become inconsolable, so I figured if we reset him it would calm him down. Yes, I fed him again and did a short walk around the house. He seemed pretty much out until I put him in his crib and then it took some PU/PD and patting with quiet voices before he finally passed out. Today sadly, I didn't pick him up until 615P, which is about an hour later than I usually am. So it threw him off and us.
Hubby and I have looked over the PU/PD session so much...is there anything else we should be spotlighting? I know the book says within a week to two he should be doing this by himself, so I think we're still just missing something to help him. No one wants him to get this more than I do so I can finally get 3 hour + increments. 
What's SA?

[Skadiver13]

Hi Hun, there is going to be A LOT of crying during ST but I would avoid "resetting" if you can. If you need to reset as you say then you can always pick him up and cuddle for a min in the dark of the room but I would avoid that as much as necessary because really he'll just learn that eventually he'll get what he wants if he just crys long and hard enough. Once he learns that it's not going to get him what he wants he'll eventually learn to settle quicker and quicker and then on his own. It's different than cio because you are there with him the whole time consoling him but not giving in to his demands to be picked up etc. SA is separation anxiety. If you have PUPD questions I would post on the PUPD thread as it's been so long since I've done it I don't want to give you bad advice ya know.