Erratic wakeup times, 2 hourly feeds, and EASY

[Carryonregardless]

Hi and apologies for the newbie post - I'm sure these questions have been answered before on here but I have scoured the site to no avail.

I have been very loosely, on and off, trying a 3-hour EASY routine since my LO was about 3 months.  He's now 5.5 months and I decided this week to have a real crack at trying to implement the 4-hour routine, mainly with the aim of lengthening his naps which rarely stretch beyond 30 minutes.  I'm less bothered about making sure his feeds are 4 hours apart although Tracy seems to suggest the two things are interrelated so I'm a bit confused about how important each part is.  He is EBF.

Anyway, I'm on Day 3 and have already encountered two specific issues which I am hoping you can help with:

1. The Secrets book suggests that (despite usual principles that this is not a "schedule" etc) when implementing the 4 hour routine you should try and keep to similar times each day, so for example if wakeup is at 7, first nap time is at 9 etc.  However although my son usually wakes up between 7 and 7.30, on Day 2 he decided to wake up fully, happy and burbling at 5.30am and Day 3 at 6.15am.  My attempts to get him to go back to sleep until 7 failed, so this threw the whole "regular times" thing completely.  However I'm guessing that I should forget trying to keep up a schedule and just count his "A" time from when he wakes up - so if a 5.30am start then nap time would say be about 7.30-8 rather than 9-9.30??  Is that right? 

2. He always seems hungry after 2 hours ish rather than 3 or 4, particularly in the morning.  Which is also when he gets tired so this often seems to lead to inadvertently nursing him to sleep.  Are there any strategies out there for dealing with this?  I don't want to NOT feed him if he's genuinely hungry, but it does throw the 4-hour routine completely.

Thanks a million in advance.

[Ima shel Alon]

Hi and welcome to the boards!

However I'm guessing that I should forget trying to keep up a schedule and just count his "A" time from when he wakes up - so if a 5.30am start then nap time would say be about 7.30-8 rather than 9-9.30??  Is that right? 

You are guessing right
Easy is not a schedule, but whenever you are tweaking A times it does become one. If you are not going to be consistent with how and when you do things you won't be able to draw any conclusions. For example: a length of a nap can often indicate if baby is OT or UT. Often 30-35min naps indicate baby is OT (so had too much A time before the nap) and 45min-1:20h long naps indicate UT (so not enough A time before the nap). So one can draw a conclusion that 2h A time is not enough for baby and then the next day you'd need to increase it by 10min and stick with for 4 days to see if it's working.
Shortly, you are right, it's not looking what time it is, but counting A times from wake up time.

Do you think he is really hungry after 2h or he uses you as comfort and as a prop? I would doubt a baby that old is hungry every 2h, it's just that he is a bit of a snacker because so far he always got his milk when he wanted it.
You have a few possibilities how to tackle it. One is to go "cold turkey" and then only feed after WU from nap. I wouldn't aim for 4h gaps between feeds, it's basically getting the right A time + a good nap = the EASY cycle. This is not so easy to do for many parents because there is a lot of crying involved. But if you are up for it then no problem.
The other option is to do this gradually, so feeding at WU and then when he asks for a feed 2h later you give it to him but reduce the time of the feed by 1min every 3 days.
Your other option is to keep on feeding him and making sure that he has a bit of A time after the second feed, even like 10min or so, just a nappy change, so he doesn't associate anymore the feeding with the sleeping.

I hope this helps. If you want you can log your days and then post them here. We can have a look at A times and naps and try to help.

[Carryonregardless]

Thanks so much for your suggestions, they're really helpful.

Looking back over the past few days his A time before the first nap has ranged from 2h10min to 3h or more, and it gets shorter over the course of the day.  Getting him to sleep in the morning is often a struggle which is why it has been so long at times.  I guess I just need to try harder 

You're probably right about using me as a comfort, though it's really hard to tell at times as he will take a reasonable feed even after 2 hours.  I think the cold turkey route might be the way to go, I just need to steel myself for the pain.

Thanks again anyway 

[chirojaz]

This might seem strange but I always found that the shortest A times for both my kids was actually in the morning even after a full nights rest and then would actually have longer A times between afternoon naps.  So maybe your baby is getting OT from the longer A time in the morning? Just a thought

[Ima shel Alon]

I just need to steel myself for the pain.

Do you mean physical? I would actually think that you would need to pump to avoid a decrease in your milk, but it would be better to ask in the BF board.

If his A time ranges so much then I would take the shortest one and stick with that for 4 days and them move up from there. I agree with pp, if he doesn't manage full A time in the midday-afternoon then he is probably OT from not enough rest.

[Carryonregardless]

Thanks again for your help.

I agree about the overtiredness.  He's just so resistant to naps though (in his cot).  This morning I started a wind down at 1h30min of A time (possibly a tad early?) and it took a further 1h20min before he fell asleep ...

I do think he may be getting the hang of it though, I'm trying to be very consistent with routine and getting him to sleep in his cot and he seems a bit more content than usual today.  However I do feel the whole day has gone by with me either trying to get him to sleep, or him actually sleeping (in 30min spurts) which seems such a shame.  Just hoping it does take less time after a while.

Feeding has been a bit of a revelation these past three days.  On Sunday my partner took care of him all day, just bringing him to me when he seemed hungry for feeding (a strategy that I would now recommend to anyone).  Which, it turned out, was only about every 3.5-4 hours    That was a bit of a shock to me really.  Anyway it has convinced me that he is ready to stretch out his feeds so I have continued to feed him at those kind of intervals, and it has been fine.  There's been a couple of times where he has tried to get at my breast after 1.5-2 hours but not with any great effort and without crying.  So going cold turkey on that front really hasn't been a bother.

So, I'm feeling happier about things already.  Thanks again.

[Ima shel Alon]

That's really great about the feeding!

Sleep wise it does get easier once you get A times right, You can go back to be more flexible about going out and messing a nap or two, because you know what his A times "should" be. Just hang in there and if you think that he was Ut for that nap today then just do it 10mi later tomorrow.