15mo - routine disappeared - NW + SER!

[Buttonbobs]

I understand I sound like a crazy lunatic and I don't want to waste any more of anyone's time!

You're not wasting our time honey, I just want to check you are ok.

Have you spoken to a doctor about your concerns that DS is lacking sleep coupled with consistent signs of tiredness?

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

Have you spoken to a doctor about your concerns that DS is lacking sleep coupled with consistent signs of tiredness?

I have not read the entire thread, just the last few posts, but I am wondering this as well? We didn't realize that DD2 actually had sleep apnea until she had her tonsils and adenoids out for other reasons and all of a sudden it was like she was awake as she was getting quality sleep not just quantity. Not saying the same thing is the issue here, just that there might be something else at play. (((Hugs)))

[cath~]

I agree with this too that's it's something that might be worth getting checked at least.  Has he always seemed so tired, eg that not getting enough sleep? Or is this more recent? Has the amount of sleep he gets changed much recently?

Most of the behaviour you describe is pretty typical toddler behaviour (esp when teething, going through dev changes) regardless of whether LO is sleeping enough.  However, all the yawning and eye rubbing sounds like there could be a lack of sleep (or something) as well.

 What is his diet like ? Do you think it's pretty balanced ? Does he drink enough fluids? (I'm no expert on this at all bit just wondered if it might be an area to consider).

I understand from your post you get the difficult behaviour pretty much every day - is that right? Do you always get the eye rubbing and yawning too or is that just some days? If it's not every day, Perhaps keep track for a few days of what you've done and what he's eaten and drunk on the days when you get lots of tired signs.

((Hugs)) it must be so exhausting dealing with this every day

[labrodyk]

Hi ladies.

Thank you so much for your support, it means a lot especially since everyone else (who hasn't seen H first hand) thinks I'm crazy!

He is on a strict elimination diet to rule out behavioural issues which was really working but I think I've reintroduced something he's reacting to.

We had a couple of fantastic days of;

Thursday
WU: 6.45
Nap: 12.45-2.45 (woke himself)
BT: 7.00

Friday
WU: 6.45
Nap: 12.45-2.45 (woke himself)
BT: 7.00

NW: call out around 4am

Then the tantrums started again;

Saturday
WU: 6.20 chatted happily until 7
Nap: 12.45 - 2.20. He was falling asleep on the change table but then absolutely screamed and back arched in my arms before I put him down. He woke happy chatting but after 10mins he started crying and then once up we had about 10+ tantrums of varying intensity from 2.30pm until bedtime. Not getting out of bath, stiffening and back arching whilst I fought to put nappy and PJ's on was the last one.

NW: 5.15 call out chatting for a few seconds then quiet but not sure if went back to sleep.

Sunday
WU: 6.30 chatting but when DH went to get him at 7.00 he started crying until he (reluctantly) drank his milk

Perhaps just a glitch in the road? The tantrums are driving me crazy...if I could send you all videos I would so you understand the intensity and frequency I would. After a supposed 1.5hr nap surely he would want to walk down the back steps and come outside (?) just stood at the top crying.
Even now he's just walking around the house crying if my DH or I don't take his hand and walk in circles around the house.

Sounds typical toddler but it's doing my head in

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

Have you heard of the book Raising Your Spirited Child? I found it was super helpful in understanding my kids (all three are spirited to varying degrees). Diet issues aside it all sounds like normal toddler stuff (though perhaps on the spirited side, they do tend to be more intense in my experience!). My DD1 started having tantrums as soon as she could stand - she would throw herself down on the floor so I eventually put lots of pillows in her room and helped her have a go at the pillows and when she was older she would go off to her room to jump around and "have a fit" as she called it.

The sleep sounds quite good and the tantrums before naps etc are par for the course here as no one wants to miss a thing! The tantrums do wear on a person though - do you get a chance to have a break? I have DH take the kids to run at the park after supper so I have a little breather before the bedtime stuff (and we also do walks, the park etc during the day as it fits in as well!).

[labrodyk]

I will definitely buy that book!! Thank you.


Any tips for chatting at 5.30?? It goes for a few mins the last few days and then quiet until around 6.30/6.45 but he often wakes then with a quick happy chat but immediately starts crying which makes me wonder whether he's been awake the whole time

Yesterday's EEA was;

WU: 6.30 (after 5.15 chat)
Nap: 12.45 - 2.45 (awake but quiet when went in)
BT: 7.10. Heard a little noise around 7.45 but that was it.

NW: 5.30 chatting

Today;
WU: 6.45 quick chat before crying

We've had to get out every single minute of the day as both morning and night is rife with tantrum after tantrum so not sure if sleep or quality of sleep is an issue here?

[labrodyk]

I don't think he went back to sleep this morning as he was so tired and upset I put him down for nap so much earlier. He fell asleep in minutes at 11.30. We are actually going out for lunch today so has worked quite well but it was cruel for me to keep him up until normal 12.45 time...I felt dreadful watching him.

[cath~]

Do you have blackout blinds? Do you think the sun could be waking him?  Lots of LOs wake early sometimes for all sorts of reasons, eg light  noise, development...  Of course it can also be routine related but that's not the sole possible cause.

have you considered a gro clock/lights on a timer?  They can be great for encouraging lo to go back to sleep if they wake early.  (Of course, if they wake early cos they've had enough sleep/not tired, then they won't help). Your lo is about the right age now to introduce this if you are interested.  It really helped us with EWs

A pps have said, overall his sleep really is pretty good.  It's totally normal for toddlers to have good days and bad days sleep wise - you can't really expect complete consistency from then (and IMO it's unrealistic to aim for this), as they have so much going on which could affect it.  Although sometimes his tantrums might be exacerbated if he's tired, eg after an EW, I'm not sure that tiredness is necessarily the sole cause.  Toddlers will have tantrums, even if they are well rested.  It's just part of their development.

I know you already have a post in D&S about your DS biting, hitting etc with a smile.  But do feel free to start a new thread there if you'd like some tips on handling tantrums. (Although getting out, as you mentioned you've been doing, is def a very good plan!)

Hope you had a nice lunch out

[Sarah - Enfys' Mum]

I definitely second the gro clock idea. Enfys had one around 18 months and it was an absolute life saver for us. I can't wait till Medi is old enough for it. ( although I may have a battle as Enfys still has it in her room )

[labrodyk]

Do you think the gro clock would work if he's still in a cot? He wakes and chats for a few minutes early but then lays quietly and whether he goes back to sleep or not I have no idea...

Last night he woke at 3.30 screaming but then settled and I didn't hear from him at all until I went in at 7.10! He was just laying there awake...

Will look into gro clock today.

[cath~]

No reason why it won't work when he's in a cot.  As long as he can see it,

We started with L at 19 mos when she was in a cot and it worked really well.  She stayed in cot until 3yr3mo and it kept working too!

Have you seen this?
Gro-Clock / Lights on a timer: What, Why, When and How

[labrodyk]

Thank you so much for all the help and suggestions. The ENW chatting has stopped only to be replaced with crying NW every night.
I'm not quite sure what is happening at the moment but we seem to be in a state of constant tantrum which I understand is normal toddler behaviour but something just doesn't seem right and I'm clearly hitting the mark.

Yesterday was such a lovely day... H was happy all day; had a decent nap but woke up crying (?). But apart from that he was AMAZING to be around.

He was pretty tired before bed at 7pm but woke SCREAMING at 12.30. He SS but then started up again so I went in and checked him. Thought he might have been too hot but he wasn't sweating or anything so I straightened him up, adjusted gro bag and retucked blankets and walked out. He had a little cry but seemed to settle. Heard a noise about 1.15 but then quiet. He woke crying at 6.45am

Tantrumed and was clingy and unhappy all day - just made it through playgroup but was visibly not happy. Got home and we had a 30min+ tantrum and nothing would stop it. He was soooooo worked up and I am not good with crying/screaming - it brought back all the hours of reflux crying and I get very anxious with it.i tried EVERYTHING including doing nothing but it kept going. He finally stopped after collapsing on me in his bedroom and I brought him out of his room for him to eat some lunch and then put him back down at 12.30. He was quiet for about 2 hours yet he has non-stopped tantrumed all arvo. Is super hypo, defiant, whingy and wouldn't eat any dinner (going on a good week or so now). He kept saying "off" and "down" but then when he was down wanted his dinner :S

funnily enough my mum was here today with me and she couldn't believe that I deal with this on a daily basis - even she said she'd never seen anything like it!!

H is 20mo on the 15th June so is there ANYTHING that could be causing this other than him just being him?
I've checked his mouth and couldn't feel a single thing teeth wise

Just tell me to suck it up if there's nothing I can do!! Totally get I'm a whinging old record haha

[Buttonbobs]

That behaviour sounds a bit like discomfort really, there may be no signs of teething but he might still be experiencing teeth discomfort. If he had reflux when younger teething can really aggravate the pain. Have you asked your doctor about this?

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

Two year molars shifting around perhaps? DD1 was in a lot of discomfort for about 6 months with those ones (sorry!). I remember cutting my wisdom teeth and how they used to move before they ever broke through...bad enough for a teenager much less a toddler!

[labrodyk]

Thanks ladies!!

It very well could be teeth. He's like a switch as the last 2 days his mood has been fabulous....

What do you think of our EAS? Despite the amazing behaviour naps have been a little on the short side and today was awake before 6 chatting until 7. The last couple of days have been great but do I need to push that morning A or is it ok?

Friday
WU: 6.48 chatting
Nap: 12.45 (asleep from 1) - 2.20 (woke crying)
BT: 7.00

Saturday
WU: 6.30 chatting
Nap: 12.45 (asleep from 1)- 2.25
BT: 7.00

NW: restless around 9.50 with a cry out at 10.15

Sunday:
WU: 5.50!! Chatting from 6.00

Thank you.