15mo - routine disappeared - NW + SER!

[Buttonbobs]

Give it a go and see what happens. Fx

[labrodyk]

Again, only slept for 1.5 hours. I doubt it is even that long based on tr time it takes to fall asleep then he prob. Doesn't start chatting straight away so probably why he is so incredibly miserable all the time

[Buttonbobs]

To be honest if he's waking quiet and then the first noises are chatting that doesn't sound like OT to me. Sounds either UT or teeth.

[labrodyk]

He seems UT after the nap but so incredibly overtired he can't keep his eyes open without falling over or crying come 11am. I'm not sure how to stretch the morning. I've tried meds but they aren't doing anything.

[Buttonbobs]

Ok. Perhaps we should take stock. Do you think you could post two whole days EAS for this weekend and then we reconsider on Monday. Sometimes the best thing to do is to take a step back and see where we are without hanging anything else for a bit. Constant tweaking can actually be more confusing for the LO than not doing anything.

What do you think?

[labrodyk]

Hello Naomi,

Just thought I'd touch base with a week's worth of EAS. We are definitely teething but I don't think that's the only thing at play. H is absolutely miserable

The sleep times are the times which he is in bed QUIET. So I can't tell you if he's asleep or not but the "from" time is when I lay him down and leave the room and the "to" time is when he starts chatting to me and is awake.

23/1
WU: 5.30am
OOB: 6.00 am
E milk 200ml cup
E 7.30/8 breakfast
A
S 11.00 - 12.35. Tried to resettle for 45 minutes but wouldn't go back to sleep
E
A
E 4.30 dinner
A 5.00 bath
E 5.30 200ml cup milk
A books and play
S 6.00 pm

NW: 4.20am crying for 10 mins. self settled.

24/1
WU: 5.45 am
OOB: 6.00 am
E milk 200ml cup
E 7.30/8 breakfast
A
S 11.25 - 1.00. Tried to resettle for 45 minutes but wouldn't go back to sleep
* I didn't mean to put down this late but we were out and didn't make it back in time. Was falling asleep in pram at 11 but ran home and popped straight into bed.
E
A
E 4.30 dinner
A 5.00 bath
E 5.30 200ml cup milk
A books and play
S 6.00 pm

NW: 10.45pm crying for 10-15 mins. self settled.

25/1
WU: 6.00 am
OOB: 6.00 am
E milk 200ml cup
E 7.30/8 breakfast
A
S 11.15 - 12.53. Tried to resettle for 45 minutes but wouldn't go back to sleep
E
A
E 4.30 dinner
A 5.00 bath
E 5.30 200ml cup milk
A books and play/travelled home in car
S 6.20 pm *came home from MIL's house so running late

NW: 11.45-12.15 crying. self settled.

26/1
WU: 5.45 am
OOB: 6.00 am
E milk 200ml cup
E 7.30/8 breakfast
A
S 11.15 - 12.45. Tried to resettle for 15 minutes but wouldn't go back to sleep & had to go out.
E
A
E 4.30 dinner
A 5.00 bath
E 5.30 200ml cup milk
A books and play
S 6.00 pm

NW: 9.15pm crying for 5 mins. self settled. Did well here considering he was in port-a-cot in unfamiliar environment.

27/1
WU: 5.30 am
OOB: 6.00 am
E milk 200ml cup
E 7.30/8 breakfast
A
S 9.00-9.20 nap in car accidental :S
E
A
S 12.30-2.26
E 5.00 dinner
A 5.30 bath
E 6.00 200ml cup milk
A books and play
S 6.30 pm

NW: none (?)

28/1
WU: 5.45 am
OOB: 6.00 am
E milk 200ml cup
E 7.30/8 breakfast
A
S 10.55 - 12.35.
E
A
E 4.30 dinner
A 5.00 bath
E 5.30 200ml cup milk
A books and play
S 6.00 pm

Will let you know how tonight and tomorrow goes.

We are off to sleep school on Thursday - Monday so I'm really hoping they too can help as much as you have.

Many thanks,
Laura
xx

[Buttonbobs]

Hi Laura,

I'm at work now so can't stop but thanks so much for posting all this info. I'll come back and hopefully we can have some further insight for you to take to the sleep school with you on Thursday. Hugs, be back later.

N xx

[labrodyk]

thanks Naomi - much appreciated

Today was;

NW: 3.20-3.40. Went in after 15 minutes and without talking lay him back down and left. He self settled to quietness/sleep quickly.
WU: 6.00 or a bit later. Was sooo tired I zoned out :S
E milk 200ml cup
E breakfast 8.00
S 11-12.17
E
A
BT 6.00

He was quite happy up until nap time which made a MASSIVE difference on yesterday. After the short nap though he was so tired around 3/3.30 but kept him awake through dinner, bath, book & bed.

Let me know your thoughts when you have a moment.

Ta,
Laura

[Buttonbobs]

Hi there honey, sorry it's taken me a while to get back to you.

Looking at those days it is interesting that he took a 2 hour plus nap on the day he'd had a little catch up nap in the morning. Looking at it all together it seems to me that he is OT overall, and that little extra nap helped him catch up a bit.

Keeping a morning CN so early could perpetuate the EWs. Could you try a short 20 minute nap at about 10am and then go for a longer afternoon nap after lunch (say 1/2ish - depending on how he seems). It might just be that he is not quite ready for one nap but that he needs a short CN. I wouldn't do it earlier than 10 as you are getting EWs. Keeping it strictly to 20 mins helps with this too.

Alternatively, if we think he is ready for one nap then I think you have to push it later (say noon) and hold it there whatever comes, for at least 5-7 days.

What do you think feels more like the right suggestion at this point?

[labrodyk]

Hi Naomi,

No problems about getting back to me, I really appreciate your help.

I'm not really sure where we stand or what direction to take. he seems very OT and the morning catnap may help BUT I find it impossible to cap the nap. I don't know when he falls asleep and when to start the 20minutes from. We don't have a video monitor and I don't drive so that's not an option. It's also upwards of 30-40 degrees at 10am at the moment so I can try and get out in the pram but we'd both likely die of heat stroke That leaves me with pushing the sleep to 12 and it seems rather like my only choice rather than the best choice for Harry...

Hopefully sleep school today and for the next week can help us out and maybe offer some suggestions!

Thanks,
Laura.

[Buttonbobs]

Hugs honey. You are doing really well. This is a hard time for our LOs as this puts strain on us mamas too.

We've never had a video monitor either so I know what you mean about not being able to watch and see eyes close etc. if you wanted to try the morning CN could you make yourself a drink and get a book or something and then put him down for the nap and then sit outside his room listening. With E I can tell when she dozes off as her breathing changes, the drink and book can make you comfortable while you listen and then you can wake him after 20 mins.

I completely understand not wanting to do a walk to APOP a nap in that weather.

Whatever you decide this may be a tricky time - we had a good few weeks when E wasn't ready for one nap but she was over having two and we just had some bad sleep for a while. I just set he nap and went with it. It didn't make her sleep any better but I relaxed about it and figured if she was really really tired she'd crash at some point. Me being more calm really helped.

I realise this is not an answer but I hope it helps you feel less alone with this problem, here to help in any way I can xx

[labrodyk]

 Hello Kate!!

I hope you're well - long time no speak.

Well, after a trip to sleep school we still don't have any answers! Harry's naps were either;

* 1 long early morning, no arvo
* no morning, short arvo
* short morning, short arvo
* no morning, ok middle of the day
* no morning, no arvo

Sleep school just told me to follow his tired cues. His mood was slightly improved there but mainly because there was new toys and lots of children to keep him busy there. One issue I've come back with is a move to a toddler bed. Harry is 16 months now so early to be in a bed. Whilst at sleep school and on our return home he hasn't gotten out of it. Now he has.

The getting out has started since we made a major jump to a 12pm nap 4 days ago. He is relatively happy to lay in bed (chatting or laying quietly or slightly wringing) for 2 hours but the actual sleep component has started to drop from close to 2 hours to only 45-50 mins today!! He was quiet on and off until 1.20but then just chatted and whinged until I got him up at 2.

What follows this at bedtime is what I think is a mix of OT and SA. he has started to scream a high pitched scream at sleep time followed by promptly getting out of his toddler bed. I give verbal reassurance and return him to bed, leaving the door ajar behind me. I do this 6 times brfore standing in the door way or sit near the door at the end of his bed until he is asleep.

He used to self settle and not move from the toddler bed - what has happened?
He's teething eye teeth (medicating with ibuprofen at bed time) and in a wonder month.

Am I doing everything right or should I be diving something different?

WU: between 6-6.30.
OOB: yesterday was the first morning he got up and wandered into my room. Usually I leave him until at least 6 or 7 whichever is closest.
E
A
S 12.00 - 2.00. This is the time I leave him in bed unless he is really unhappy. his actual sleep time would be about 1-1.5 hours but is getting less. Very difficult to resettle as he doesn't respond to any of the usual settling or AP techniques.
E
A
S 6.30-7. Mostly 6.30 as he is very tired.

If you could offer ANY assistance I'd really appreciate it. I'll be up late and will keep checking to see if you need any additional info.

Ta,
Laura

ETA: last night was the first night in months there were no night wakings. I'm trying really hard to make a good go of one sleep and be consistent in everything we do but I'm really struggling (again!!)

[labrodyk]

It's just turned 10pm and I've taken Harry back to bed twice now. I've flicked on his nightlight incase he's scared but I'm thinking this is OT?

So we've had
10-10.25. Returned to bed twice plus verbal reassurance from hallway
11.05-11.30. Returned to bed once plus verbal reassurance from hallway
1.05. Returned to bed once ...so far. Quiet atm
1.55. Out of bed again.
2.18. And out again.
2.35. Out again
Now 3am and I've been sitting in his room but still getting out and crying. Have turned night light off.

So he got out a further 4 times and screamed blue murder until I got hi and help him (he didn't even want that - he thrashed around in my arms on the floor before cuddling with a huge drink of water.  By that time I was frazzled and upset, so for the first time in his life he slept in our bed from around 3.30/4-7. This is not something I want to encourage but I was out of ideas and my brain hurt.

Should I give him a 2 nap day or push through with 12pm nap and put the cot sides back on his bed?

[labrodyk]

Was an interesting day today, Kate.

I decided to remain consistent with the new sleep time of 12pm. I did however put the side back on the cot. After lunch I popped Harry down but he cried, screamed, stood and sat from 11.55-1.35. I took a hard arse approach and didn't go to him because I also think that's a big issue! He's still asleep over 2 hours later. I'm going to wake him by 3.45 in order to conserve 7pm bedtime.

Just keeping in touch. Would love to hear your thoughts when you have a moment.

Thank you,
Laura

[Buttonbobs]

Hey there,

Personally if he is happy if his cot then I would go with it. We have had phases when E wouldn't sleep until much later in the day and it can impact upon night time sleep so I hope you had a reasonable night.

I do still feel that consistency is key so are you going for one nap?
Hope BT went ok ,

Naomi x