15mo - routine disappeared - NW + SER!

[labrodyk]

Oh ladies...you probably think I'm a neurotic lunatic first time mum but I'm worried about Harry.

I know he's teething and WW and only 2 weeks into 1 day sleep but even with ibuprofen he woke at 4.30am crying and I don't know if he went back to sleep but awake from 6, cried all morning, slept barely 1.5 hours (woke crying), and cried, and tantrum screamed all afternoon. I'm not exaggerating. Every single minute. I'm going to take him to the doctor if I can tomorrow just to rule out ear infections but seriously; he's too tired and upset to eat or even drink his milk.

NW: 4.30
WU: 6.00 in bed chatting and whinging until 7
Nap: 11.50 asleep just after 12.
WU: crying from 1.30 but I think he was laying there quietly beforehand. I tried to cuddle in his room unt 2 but he hasn't ever and won't cuddle
BT: 6.30. Quiet until I opened the door next to his room at 6.50 and he started crying.

Not sure what time he actually went to sleep as my anxiety went crazy (as you can probably guess anxiety is a major issue for me...) so I had to go outside and relax.

Should I move the nap back given he's night waking and waking at or before 6am? He's not LSN and happy...he's HSN but won't sleep or can't handle little sleep. No idea how to fix that though.

I'm feeling really stressed, lost and a complete failure. Would really appreciate your advice.

Thanks so much.
Laura
X

[Buttonbobs]

(((Hugs))) honey, you are not a failure!! This is a really tough time for LOs sleep, I remember feeling his was a very stressful period myself, please try not to beat yourself up about it.

You are doing the right things and I agree it is worth going to the doctor for peace of mind about his ears.

As for the rest it could all still be teething and developmental behaviour. If it is, then unfortunately there isn't much you can do except keep medicating for a few more days and keep comforting him. Did you offer meds at all during the day/before his nap?

If you feel OT is really kicking in then you could try a one-off day with an earlier nap and EBT. With my DD this never really helped when the reason for her lack of sleep was teeth or development as she was never really tired enough to sleep the extra she needed and my plans to get extra sleep often backfired. But you know your LO best and it may be just what he needs. If you try a catch up day, try it for one day and then had back to normal times for the next day so you're not adjusting for too long. What do you think?

[labrodyk]

Thanks Naomi. I just feel so low and upset as my friends are all really enjoying their toddlers and I'm not. I feel so left behind because 16 months later we're still struggling and their sleep issues are all sorted!

I'm medicating before naps and bedtime but he's just miserable and throwing tantrums left right and centre. It was a 1hr 20min nap today but I'm thinking he's asleep for the first 45 mins and then dozes with eyes shut for the next 45 but isn't actually asleep and then he's awake crying. He had a decent sleep last night waking closer to 7 I think, but was grumpy and tired by 9 am!

He's going down absolutely screaming at nap and BT and waking up crying

What time should I put him down for nap and BT if I did do catchup day? We did a massive jump from around 9.30 to midday nap for the transition so I have no idea whether earlier would be better... BT is stuck at 6.30 currently with the crappy sleeping and behavior.

ETA: we were late driving home from my parent's house tonight and we milk book bed in about 15 mins to get him down at 7.05. He was laying in bed quietly awake for 40+ mins until I tried to heck on him and woke him. He started crying but has stopped but still not asleep. Grrrrrrr

[labrodyk]

So I'm not sure what was different today but he was happy to follow me around the house and even went off and was mischievous without me which never happens. I was so unaware because he was being so good and so we had lunch late at 12 and in bed 20 mins later at 12.20. He was asleep by 12.30. He woke around 1.20 but did go back to sleep for another 30 mins until 1.50. He didn't cry like usual though and happily chatted until 2.30.

Should I stick with this for a few days with 7pm bed or maintain the midday sleep? It seems 1.5 is all he's going to do...

ETA:
we did 7pm bed tonight as he was just so happy which is unlike him. He had a tantrum around 4ish because I wouldn't let him break the computer but distracted him in his room with books and he was fine again. However, he has taken a while to settle tonight with a bit of protest going down (as usual) and then after about 15 mins. Could it be because DH put him down for the first time in a while or OT?

Day looked like;

WU: 6:30 chatted happily!
OOB: 7.00
Nap: 12.20; asleep by 12.30. stirred at 1.20 but drifted back to sleep until 1.50 then chatted happily until 2.30
BT: 7.00; asleep by 7.25
NW: 10.30 but self settled

WU: 6.11 murmur chatting from 6.34

[labrodyk]

Well this morning has been completely different. Tantrums every 30 minutes and constant whinging. I'm about ready to throw him out a window!! But seriously, his mood is catapulting from one extreme to the other and nothing is calming him. He keeps lying down on the ground so I'm assuming he's tired?

I don't know what to do or where to go? Just keep going with 12/12.30 or scale it right back? I'm just scared that  if I do and he only sleeps 1.5 hours if that, then it's just too long before bedtime and I don't want to do any earlier than 6.30 because he's an early riser and doesn't tack on.

Thanks so much for your help.

Laura
x

[labrodyk]

Today was;

WU: 6.10 squeak then chatting from 6.30
OOB: 7.00
Nap: 12.02. Asleep 12.12. Made noise at 1.02 and then rolled around with eyes shut sucking his finger for another 50 minutes before saying "duck" (lol!!) and then crying. OOB at 2.
BT: 6.30. Shout out cry at 6.45. Asleep by 7.00

I medicated before bed tonight for the canines. Do you think I should do anything or just keep plodding along?

Why is it that he can't fall back into deep sleep after that first cycle!? He just has his eyes closed and rolls around sucking his finger but I wouldn't call it restorative sleep...

He was a bit wired up before bed and didn't want to brush his teeth or get ready - kind of like saying he wasn't ready (?) but then he was rubbing dinner into his eyes at 5 so who knows...

[Buttonbobs]

Hi honey, I'm so sorry I can't post now as I'm at work and can't write for long enough. I did post for you yesterday and I don't know why it isn't showing

Just (((hugs))) for now and I'll be back later.

xx

[labrodyk]

Oh that's ok!! I'm just heading to bed so will probably just catch you in the morning (your night).

Sorry for the ridiculous multiple posts...

[labrodyk]

Hello Naomi,

Thanks for listening to me rant on and on.

So it seems like we're going from one extreme to the other. Tantrums galore but I think it was more age/dev related.

Naps are still MAX 1.5 hours of quietness (not asleep the whole time) but at least H is waking up happy rather than miserable.

If I could please get your thoughts on bedtime. Got stuck in major traffic jam tonight and DH didn't put H down until 7. He was happy playing after milk and stories but perhaps he got a second wind and became excitable because he took a good 40 mins of crying off and on before falling asleep. Would this be OT or UT? 6.30 seems to be working better but I just can't tell.

WU: 6.10. Quietly chatting off/on.  OOB at 7.00
Nap: 12.00. Asleep by 12.10. Chatting happily from 1.40 but definitely awake dozing and rolling around, playing with comforter.
BT: 7.00. Whinged and cried intermittently. Asleep by 7.40

NW: 11.30 crying for several minutes but self settled and went quiet
NW: 2.45 crying for several minutes but self settled and went quiet
* as with all h's night wakings it can take him a long time to get back to sleep as he just lies there quietly so not sure how much he actually slept.   

WU: 6.55 (??) I THINK. So tired I don't know if I heard him or not

[Buttonbobs]

Hugs honey, don't worry about the ranting, that's what the forums are for

It is quite hard to see a pattern here and obviously I don't know your DS and I can't see him personally, but from what you're saying it does sound like teething/development - particularly the "duck" incident! Lol. This is hard because there possibly isn't much you can do about it but ride it out. To be honest, if you're getting reasonable nights, I wouldn't worry too much, even if BT is sometimes tricky. LOs do take longer to go to sleep as they get older. My E now likes to "read" and chatter to herself after we've done stories and it can take a good 30 mins for her to doze off. In her younger baby days she would often go off in 5 mins if we got A times right.

He was happy playing after milk and stories but perhaps he got a second wind and became excitable because he took a good 40 mins of crying off and on before falling asleep. Would this be OT or UT?

This could well be OT. It does sort of depend on the child really and with our E I have often found it hard to tell the difference between OT and UT - particularly because she tends to react to both with over the top happy chat at BT. Crying to me does sound a bit more like OT, especially as the days before that you had more chatty playful sleep refusal. Perhaps the last little while with teething and developmental blips have left him OT overall. It is difficult to say though unless you're getting disturbed nights (in which case lots of waking in the early part of the night is more likely to be OT and long chatty wakings in the early hours are more likely UT or teething).

HTH and more hugs

[labrodyk]

You're so incredibly helpful Naomi, thank you so much.

6.30 BT with meds seems to be working better for us atm if he starts chatting from 1.30 after 1.5 nap. but I'm at a complete loss on how to manage BT if it's later than that and whether I should be monitoring him for actual "sleep" or base A time from when he starts talking, calling out, banging feet on cot?

Eg. Today's EAS was

WU 6.50 (?)
Nap 11.55. Asleep by 12.05. Noise at 1.30 but quiet until he said mum at 1.55.

Looking through the crack in his door, he was just laying across his bed playing with his comforter for most of the last part of his nap.

Thanks for the hugs

[labrodyk]

So we've just had our first night waking at 10.30. This seems pretty consistent now at 3.5-4 hours after BT. He had pain meds...could he be too hot? Or something else?

He was unhappy at BT tonight because I put him in facing the wrong way and he immediately stated screaming and standing up. I left him to it but ended up going back in and rearranging him and he was asleep in 10-15mins so 6.50.

[Buttonbobs]

whether I should be monitoring him for actual "sleep" or base A time from when he starts talking, calling out, banging feet on cot?

I never used a video monitor, so I always counted sleep time as anything when I thought she was asleep, she could also have been lying silently and I wouldn't have known. The good thing is when he is lying quietly playing with his comforter for example, he is still resting and not at all upset.

So we've just had our first night waking at 10.30. This seems pretty consistent now at 3.5-4 hours after BT. He had pain meds...could he be too hot? Or something else?

This could be the first lot of pain meds running out perhaps. I know the calpol (paracetamol) I would give E as a first option medicine can be taken every 4 hours and she would often have a wake up around that time if unwell or in pain. that would also coincide with a transition between sleep cycles and perhaps an indication that he was not able to go through for some reason. Yes, being too hot could be a factor.

I can't remember - have you tried a nap at 12.30 consistently at all?

[labrodyk]

Hello Naomi,

Hope you're well. I can't wait for the weekend as hubby has a 4 day weekend and Harry and I haven't seem him much the last week.

Thanks for continuing to help me - I know I ramble and come across as an anxious nut!

We don't have a video monitor either but I keep the door open a crack so I can peek at him. I can't seem to relax at all until I know he's asleep. To clarify, when I say Harry wakes up or sleeps time based on when I hear from him but he is usually awake well before that.

Today was so incredibly strange and I'm hoping you can help me decipher it.

WU: 6.30
Nap: 11.55. I don't think he fell asleep for some time but he was quiet
WU: 2.40 with a little cry before banging around on the cot
BT: 7.05. A short cry for a few mins then silent before 7.20 whinging/crying and then again at 7.30 until finally quiet around 7.40. I was going to go in but it wasn't an "I need you" cry and I felt I would have just made him stay awake longer.

I was going to put him down later (like 7.30) or wake him from the nap but I;
A) didn't want to wake from nap because I've spent 16 months trying to get him to sleep!
B) I chickened out of the later bedtime because I was scared he'd be OT

Should I have stuck to my usual 6.30 BT or done 7.30+. I don't know what to aim for regarding bedtimes depending on the nap length - what do you suggest for a 16 monther?!

Thanks,
Laura

[labrodyk]

Hey Naomi!

Well the long naps didn't last and we were back to 1.5 tops. Harry's mood has taken quite a different turn from a couple of days ago. He was really happy and active and yesterday and today he's been back to his miserable self.

Today's EAS is below. He had no NW last night but had a shorter night.

WU: 6.20 he started chatting.
OOB: 7.00
Nap: 11.55. Asleep 12.05. Chatting from 1.30.
OOB: 2.00
BT: 6.30. Asleep at .... After major craziness

We had major shenanigans at BT. DH put him down again and he tried to stand up the second he put him in. Laid him back down and left as we always do but whinged for a good 10mins before falling quiet but didn't actually fall asleep until well after 7!!

Nap is still at 12 because he's dead tired by then and I can't keep him up any longer.

What should I do moving forward? We're still in dev leap and teething (which I keep medicating for - paracetamol before nap and ibuprofen before BT) so I'm very confused....