Sleep Unraveling Quickly

[bloosiern]

My daughter just recently turned 12 months old and has never been the greatest sleeper even as a newborn.  I thought we were getting some sort of routine down a few months ago but then we turned the clocks back and things have been so inconsistent since.  She goes to bed and for naps independently without crying.  However, she is very restless for up to an hour before she falls asleep and then continues to be restless throughout the night.  She doesn't ever wake up crying but once every few weeks wakes up talking in the MOTN.  Her wake up time varies quite a bit (5-630) and I actually think she's awake earlier since i see/hear her thrashing about.  She has been taking 2 naps still but is now playing a lot before one or both even though she acts tired.  I feel as though she is actually overtired even though she's not crying.  I need help...I feel as though she's not going to sleep at all soon!

[jessmum46]

Could you post her routine for us?

[bloosiern]

This is a pretty rough routine since I feel like she lost any sort of routine over the last few weeks.  Lately this is what it seems to be:

A:  5-5:30a (don't get her up until 6)
S:  8-8:30a (usually PD after 2 hours, sometimes plays for up to 30-45 min even though she rubs her eyes during wind down)

A:  9:30-10a (usually up after 1.5 hours)
S:  12-12:30p (usually plays here too for a bit even though she rubs her eyes during wind down)

A:  1:15-1:45 (usually up after 1.25-1.5h, she tends to sleep solid for the first 45min but then be restless the rest of the time)
S:  5-5:30p (she usually falls asleep within 30-45min though sometimes it takes longer and again she sleep solid for the first 45min-1h 15min but then is restless the rest of the night but she never wakes up crying)

As an example, yesterday I think she woke at 545a, napped 810-940, napped 1225-145, and was in bed at 5 but didn't fall asleep until possibly just after 6 (she had been fussy/rubbing eyes since 4:30).  She woke just after 1a talking/playing and I heard her talking again at 640 which is when I got her up.  I laid her back down at 8:40 and she played until finally falling asleep at 9:45.  She just wiggled around a bit after 45min but appears to still be sleeping.

With all the playing, her naps and bedtime are all over the place.  There have been a few days recently where she slept later for the morning nap then completely refuses the afternoon nap.

Sorry if the format isn't quite right as I'm new to here.  I feel like I don't know what to do.

[jessmum46]

I'm just moving this post to Toddler Sleep as your LO is now over a year old

[jessmum46]

This is a really common age for sleep to get a bit tricky, as LOs move towards the 2-1 transition.  I think from what you've posted she is giving you signs she needs more A time and possibly one nap to be shortened.  Her first nap is really much too early in the day - so she is waking earlier and earlier to try to fit in some A time beforehand.  Then that makes the whole day too early.  She also sounds like she's having undertired night wakings and resisting naps because you are putting her down too early.  Time for a routine overhaul!

Have a look at this link about the 2-1 transition: from 2 to 1 nap - how, when and the bumps and 10/ 11mo sleep gone wonky? Read this first! (2-1 switch)

If you read the second one in particular you will see that you need to start pushing her morning nap later and cutting it shorter, aiming for a short morning nap and a long afternoon nap.  Given her current routine is actually (if you look at when she falls asleep) more like:

WU 5-5.30
Nap 8.30ish for 1.5h
Nap 12.30ish for 1h15-30
BT 6ish

I would suggest setting her first nap at 8.30am and waking her after an hour, then setting her second nap at 12.30 and letting her have up to 2h sleep.  Then BT 3.5-4h after waking from long nap.  After 3-4 days push that to 8.45/12.45.  3-4 days later make it 9 and 1pm (this is all regardless of wakeup time in the morning) and so on, perhaps until you get to naps at 9.30am and 1.30pm.  If you find she is still resisting her pm nap after a good week or two of consistency, then you may need to shorten her morning nap to 45 minutes. 

Hopefully by pushing her first nap later and capping it shorter, her WU time should start shifting later again and you can gradually move the day back to a more sociable time . What do you think?

[bloosiern]

That sounds like something that would work.  However, these last few days her morning WU, naps, and BT have been all over the place.  What do I do if she wakes up earlier/later than 5/530?  Do I PD after x amount of hours or stick to 830 no matter what?

After reading your reply, the links you attached, and various other posts it sounds like her being undertired earlier in the day is leading to her being overtired later in the day.  Does that sound right?  Would the fact that times are all over the place explain why she is so restless during sleep?  Should the set times for naps help with settling for naps/BT?

Thanks so much for your help!  My older daughter (3 years, 4 months) was a terrific sleeper since birth and put herself on a schedule at just a few weeks old.  I think I expected the little one to be the same and even though she's such an alert and happy girl, she is going to drive me crazy if she doesn't get into some sort of routine soon:)

[bloosiern]

I feel like things are just getting more confusing.

Here was yesterday:

WU: 6:20 (this is when she started talking, she was probably up before that since I heard her moving about)
S:8:15 (PD 8:00, she was acting tired and didn't go to bed until 7pm the night before due to later nap, she fell asleep in 15min)
A: 9:35

S: 12:50 (don't remember what time I PD but she played awhile)
A: 1:35 (she wiggled around after 30min then resettled)

S: 3:50 (she may have fallen asleep in car)
A: 4:05

S: ?? (PD at 5pm due to not being sure she actually fell asleep in car, she appeared to be asleep within 15min but then was wiggling around a lot until 6)

She was very restless during the night and when I checked the monitor around 3am her eyes were open and she was rolling around.  I heard her again at 6:20 but I think she was actually up around 5:45 and just tried to get back to sleep until I heard her talking.

Here is today so far:

WU:  6:20 (but like I said I think it was possibly 5:45)
S:  9:25 (PD 8:30, was going to give up since she played forever but then noticed she pooped so I put her back down)

A:  10:25 (she rolled around attempting to go back to sleep but never did)
S:  ? (PD 12:30 as previously suggested but she's still playing in there now)

I just don't understand how I can get her on any sort of routine if none of the times are ever consistent.  I'm also so confused because sometimes it appears she's sleeping but she rolls around so much that there's no way she could be.

[jessmum46]

Ok if you've got inconsistent WU times, you may need to go with set A times rather than set clock times for a while to help her settle down.

So I would do:

WU whenever
A 3h
S wake her after 1h
A 3h
S allow up to 2h
A 4h, possibly slightly shorter if one or both naps is a mess.

I would suggest sticking with a plan for a week, keep a track of nap length and how long it takes her to settle, and then we can tweak the times a bit. What do you think?

[bloosiern]

That sounds like something that might be easier to implement.  She has been sick with a fever, runny nose and congested cough the last few days so I will have to wait until she's better to try it out.

[jessmum46]

Is she any better?  Hugs, it's so horrible when they're not well

[bloosiern]

Thanks...she still has a runny nose and congested cough but she is doing so much better than a few days ago.  She is back to sleeping better at night now that she can actually breathe through her nose.  I'm going to wait a day or two and then try to get her back on track with naps/bedtime.

[bloosiern]

So I know I said I'm not going to push her into a routine until I know she's better but I'm not sure what to do until then to keep her well-rested.  I know she's overtired from being sick the last several days.  She woke last night around 1230 for about an hour due to coughing then I heard her talking at 5 but I think she fell back to sleep and I got her up at 0615.  She was fussy around 8 so I PD and she was asleep within 20min but only slept 1hr.  I PD again at 12 and she was asleep within 20min but only slept 45min.  She wome happy and talking so I left her for an hour to see if she'd go back to sleep but she never did.  So my question is what time should I do bedtime?  I was thinking 5 because she will usually fall asleep then.  How long should it take to get her back on track?  Does it seem as though her naps today are OT or UT?

[jessmum46]

I would say UT naps.  I know she's been unwell but in my experience A times are never that much reduced for very long, definitely not if the main symptoms are just cough/cold in any case.  You could go for 5pm BT and then try to shoot for a more 'normal' routine tomorrow, or try for one more nap and a slightly later BT today.  May backfire though if she's starting to feel better.....

[bloosiern]

I just don't know what to do...things are just all over the place.  She's taking a decent morning nap every morning even though the time is varying but the afternoons are so inconsistent.  She plays for quite a bit before the afternoon nap and still seems quite restless after the 45min/1hr mark and I just can't tell if she's still sleeping at that point or just trying to fall back to sleep.

A few days this last week she has completely refused her afternoon nap which was becoming a pattern these last few weeks.  The funny thing is, my mom was watching her the other day while I was at work and she only took 1 nap and slept for 2.5 hours.  I had tried to get her to take the morning nap that day but she fought it for more than an hour so I took her out.  My mom laid her down at 10 and she slept until 1230 but then refused to sleep again until bedtime.  My husband laid her down just before 6 and said she fell right to sleep.  The few days since then she's taken 2 naps but like I said the afternoon nap is restless and she's been taking at least an hour to fall asleep at bedtime and then been restless during the night.

What do I do?  Does she need 1 nap or 2?  Is she OT or UT?

[jessmum46]

Sounds very much like she's in the 2-1 transition

I hated this point and although it may not have been the right thing to do, I decided we were going to push on with one set nap and very early BT, the only exception being if we had a pre-6am waking where I would allow a short morning nap and then try for a half-decent afternoon one.  Possibly we could have held onto two naps for longer if I'd switched to a short am, long pm routine, but we also had the fact she was about to start at nursery where they only offered one nap.

Our routine was:

WU whenever
Nap 11.15/11.30 up to 3h if she wanted - rarely got there in the first month or two!!
BT 5.30/6pm

If there was a very EW we did a 20 min nap around 9/9.30 and then a pm nap around 3h later.

I won't lie, it was tough for a few weeks and we had quite a lot of night wakings, but I just reached the point where I couldn't be bothered to work it out any more!  But it's worth considering a short am, long pm routine as that would likely be a bit gentler on LO.  You could post over on the 2-1 transition support thread for some advice on that?