5.5 month old waking/screaming after night feeds

[Candaces]

My 5.5 month old was down to 2 night feedings (approx 1am and 4 am)after bed around 7pm.  We dropped the DF at 4.5 months after realizing she was sleeping better and longer without. From birth she has always taken her night feeds and immediately fallen asleep again. On the rare occasion she would be awake she would play quietly and then nod off again within 10 or so minutes.   All of a sudden 2 weeks ago she started waking between 9:30 and 10:30 for a feed (1st set back) and after her middle of the night feeds she is now waking up again 5 minutes after I put her back to bed but now is WIDE awake for HOURS kicking and screaming crying at the top of her lungs if I don't hold her (2nd set back).  This has happened every night for 2 weeks, with the exception of one night, and that day was no different so it's a mystery why.

She has been on solids since 4.5 months Dr. recommended due to how large she is (5oz total daily now over 2 meals), and I BF 6 times in 24 hours as well.  She is at an A time of 2hrs 15 minutes.  I tried 2.5 and she's just not ready yet.  Some days she has naps of 30, 1.5 hrs and 30. Other days two 1.5, today it was 30 and 2.5.  She puts herself to sleep for both naps and bed time. 

What on earth can be causing this 'wide awake, want to play or else I'll cry and scream' phase!?!

[Candaces]

Sorry here is the full breakdown:

How old is your child? 5.5 months
What’s his/her daily routine? 7:30 wake,BF both sides, 8:30 2oz food,9:45 nap 30 to 1.5 hours. 11:30ish BF both sides, nap 2pm 30 to 1.5 hrs varies daily, 3:30ish BF both sides, 5:00pm dinner 3oz food, 6:00 bath and BF, put down drowsy but awake.  Some days if the afternoon nap ends before 2pm she will have a 3rd CN around 5ish and then bedtime would be 7pm ish 2-3 night wakings.
What’s nap routine? 20 minutes before we draw the blinds, then story or songs and pacifier in the rocking chair.  When she's tired she arches out of my lap, I put her in the crib and she sucks her thumb until she falls asleep, usually 5 minutes.
How long are naps? Each day and each nap is different. Either way I have a 1 hour policy with her now, if she wakes before an hour I don't go in, sometimes she plays, sometimes cries, sometimes goes back to sleep.  Other times she sleeps 1 hour plus without making a peep. 
What's bedtime routine? Time? 2.5 to 3 hours after last nap depending on her cues. Bath then songs and BF in the rocking chair. When she's sleepy I put her down, she sucks her thumb and falls asleep within 5-10 minutes.
Do you bottle or breastfed?? EBF
How much? or how long? She has always been a fast eater, 5-7 minutes each side and I always offer both sides.
If breastfed.. one side or both?? (at each feed)
How many wakes per night? 2-3 now was only 2 before issues started.
What’s your LO like when waking at night? How long is he/she up? Wide awake flailing arms and legs in excitement. If I back away from the crib she screams.
When you go to him/her is she fussing or crying? Or is it a mantra cry? Full on crying, which stops as soon as I pick her up. Put her down again she immediately screams again.
What have you tried to settle?? Nursing to ensure it wasn't a GS and she was hungry. Patting back and tummy in the crib, PU/PD, CIO.
What do you do for A time and how long is it? Songs, playing with toys on the floor, run errands etc. 2 hours 15 minutes, at 2.5 hours she's overtired and won't go down smoothly.  I will try 2.5 again at 6 months.
Are there developmental issues such as teething or milestones? Might be teething but no sign of tooth
Have you introduced cereal? Why, how much, and how many times a day? (for LO’s under 6 months) 1.5oz of fruit mixed with .5oz of cereal for breakfast, 2oz of veg and 1oz fruit at dinner.  She is 29 inches at 5 months, she started demanding milk every 1.5-2 hours so Dr reco'd adding solids.  She can't get enough, LOVES her food.
Do they have a prop? If so what is it? Her thumb
Do they have a lovie? I think she's too young still, but there are 2 plush monkeys in her crib she plays with after waking in the morning and after naps.


This should cover all the basic information needed. Please post the answers with your questions.

[Skadiver13]

She has been on solids since 4.5 months

Hi hun, do you think this could be a problem? Could the wakings be pain related? That can be somewhat early for lo's to start solids and many times their bodies just aren't ready. I understand your Doc suggested it but maybe she's having digestion issues? I think maybe try stopping dinner right now and see if that helps. Maybe what she's eating at dinner is affecting her night sleep?

As for resettling, here we do not condone CIO and I"m hoping you agree that it is not a viable option for teaching a little one to self settle.  This also might be part of the problem that she isn't an independent sleeper.  Are you prepared to try and teach her how to fall asleep on her own?

Could you post your EAS like this?
E
A
S

Thanks HTH

[Layla]

Hello and welcome

Do you notice these night wakings more when she takes the catnap? I ask because she is approaching the age where she may need to drop the catnap. I've attached a link for you to look at which will explain it better. All about the 3-2 transition- 5/6 months

The other thing I would be concerned about is the solids. I am not a doctor but my understanding is that introducing solids too early can cause them quiet a lot of discomfort. I introduced rice cereal at 5.5months and then backed away from it because mine was having tummy issues. Also, I would move the dinner solids to lunch instead. My LO (almost 8 months) has only very recently started having small amount (1 tablespoon, if that) at dinner. Dd3 is also breastfed and we were doing feeds every 4hrs or so with 1 tablespoon of solids for breakfast. I used to cluster feed in the evening (before bath) and then final feed before bedtime.

You also mentioned she gets overtired if kept awake longer than 2.5hrs and that she will go to bed between 2.5-3hrs, depending on when her last nap ended. Try putting her down to bed no later than 2.5hrs as it is possible (especially if she's had poor naps during the day) that she's overtired by bedtime and is waking up at night more often because of that.

I am not sure if you have read the BW books but BW doesn't condone CIO - try and resettle her with what she responds to best (shh/pat for example)

Posted with Skadiver

[Candaces]

I know she doesn't have digestive issues, she has three good meals at breakfast, lunch and dinner and 4 good breastfeeds during the day and is happy as a clam all day long with no nap issues at 7 months. Even in Tracy's book she references a little guy with very tall parents she started on rice cereal at 4.5 months because he was so big. 

Never the less we are still experiencing waking 2.5-3 hours after bed time and 2-3 night wakings. 

Here is our most recent schedule now at 7 months:

8:00am AWAKE and BF, both sides
9:00am BREAKFAST 2.5 oz of purée plus 1tbs of 'finger food' (toast, Cheerios, eggs, fruits, sweet potato etc)
10:30 NAP wind down is 10 minutes of cuddling in her room with white noise on until she tries to wriggle away and then I put her in the crib where she sucks her thumb to sleep.
12:00 AWAKE and BF, offering both sides
1:00pm LUNCH 2 tbs of 'finger' foods
2:30pm NAP
4:00pm AWAKE and BF
5:00pm DINNER 2.5oz of purée and 1-2 Tbs of finger foods
5:50pm Bath, 2oz of Formula (started this formula feed 2 weeks ago, I wanted to completely break the association of BF at bed to stop the night waking) cuddles, story and white noise in her room
6:30pm Fast asleep after being put in her crib drowsy
This is where it still gets messy:
8:30- 9:30pm AWAKE (tried wake to sleep for 8 days. She would stir, sometimes roll over or suck her thumb, but every time she would still wake again between 2.5-3 hours. I know this should work right away so I tried going in each night at a different time to try and get it to work... No luck)
She wants to BF, I give her each side for a short 2-3 min and then put her back to bed (2 weeks ago I started making the BF session shorter and shorter). I have tried not feeding her and she will fall asleep again but will continue to wake up every 15-30 minutes until I nurse her, then she will sleep another longish stretch.   

After the 1st waking some nights she will sleep 5 hours, have a feed of 4-5 minutes on each side and go right back to sleep, not waking again until 7:00am ish. 

Other nights look something like this:
9:00pm AWAKE, BF promptly back to sleep
1:00am AWAKE, BF promptly back to sleep
3:30am AWAKE, BF wants to play, wide awake until 5:00am ish
8:00am AWAKE to start the day

I am super consistent with her naps, awake time and our bedtime routine, so I don't understand why for two or three nights I can get 5 hours straight out of her and then the next night she's up 4 times!! She has no teeth yet, not even any bumps or holes I can feel, and even so I tried to give her Tylenol for a few nights in a row at bed and she still woke up all the same.

Note that I have also tried a 30 minute cat nap at 6:30pm and then bed around 9:00pm and that makes no difference, she still wakes 2.5-3 hours after bedtime.

Suggestions to get her to consistently sleep 5 hours for each sleep chunk??

[Skadiver13]

Suggestions to get her to consistently sleep 5 hours for each sleep chunk??

Hi hun I think what we've already suggested is worth a shot. Eliminate her dinner for now. She doesn't need it for nutritional value and that small amount at dinner is not going to help her sleep through the night in fact at this age it could be taking away from the amount of milk she would be taking at dinner. Also this may help if she indeed is having digestive issues. Most lo's don't start dinner in general to around 8 months.

Are you not BF at all before bed? That is what may be causing her to wake at 9 hungry. There is nothing wrong with feeding before bedtime as long as there is a bit of time between when you BF and put down. Some mom's may do it before Bath time but many just put about 10min between feeding and BT and that does the trick. I would go back to feeding her right before bed and then if she wakes prior to 4hrs resettle with out feeding. And do that again if she wakes prior to 4hrs than resettle and that will help cut down on her nw's. But I honestly don't think she maybe getting enough milk during the day so she's waking more hungry at night.

[Candaces]

Okay I'll give it a try, I'm just very skeptical. For one thing I had both our family doctor and a pediatric specialist tell me to move her to three meals a day plus breast-feeding. And in Tracy's book at seven months old she should be getting breast-fed at least 4 to 6 times a day which she absolutely is. I always make sure I breast-feed first, then I wait an hour to give her her food.  The other reason I don't think that food is the problem is I am also offering her a bottle of formula about 15 minutes before bed where she has never taken more than 2 ounces. If my milk never came in or I chose not to breast-feed she would be having a bottle of formula 4 to 6 times a day so I don't think that there is that big of a caloric difference between breast milk and formula.  I think there is a bigger issue here that I cannot seem to figure out.

FYI I have also just moved her to a three hour awake time between naps, I realized that we were having a big under tired overtired problem at night. We are now getting a bit of a longer stretch when we first put her to bed, and she is going right back to sleep after I feed her instead of being awake and playing, but she is still waking at least three or four times.

I will give it a try tonight and not give her supper and just breast-feed her every two hours before she needs to go to bed tonight I will post an update tomorrow. But please put your thinking cap back on because again I really don't think that this is a food versus breastmilk issue.

[Skadiver13]

Hun im on my phone so cant type much. Im not saying its a food vs bf issue. Im merely saying take away dinner for a few days and see if that helps with any digestive issuea she may be having and up her  intake at her bedtime feeding. She should still be getting a bt feeding at this age for quite a while actually. And you certainly don't need to cluster feed it was merely a suggestion. I am not a doctor I just speak from my own experience and from what ive seen on this forum. It is up to you as a mom to do what you think is best. I dont have much other advice for you accept it could be she needs more A time to combat some UT which it seems you are doing. I can certainly ask some others to take a peek.

[Candaces]

No I appreciate the suggestion, and I will try. Hey we've tried everything else it seems.  I just know there's something I'm doing wrong, but for the life of me I can't figure it out.

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

Could it possibly be a particular food causing the issue? Just pondering and throwing it out there...if some nights are great and some are not it might be worth keeping a food diary to see if there is a correlation between bad nights and a particular food.

[Candaces]

Okay here's the update. I cut out dinner and she is still only taking 2oz of formula after bath, and will then nurse for a good 10 minutes shortly before bed.  She normally can 'empty' a breast in about 5 minutes.  She is STILL waking 2.5- 3 hours every night.  She is taking a full 10 minute feed each time and last night I was only going to let her eat for 1-2 minutes, however when she started to nurse I heard her stomach growl!  So needless to say dinner is coming back tonight. 

I did consider a hard to digest food was the problem, but I rotate between the same 4-5 flavours of baby food, and in tracking previously I didn't noticed a pattern.

I also realized that a 3hr awake time is too much for her right now as we started to have nap and bed time battles, as well as short naps.  So starting today I am trying a gradual awake time, 2.30 hours in the morning, 2.45 afternoon and 3 hours evening. As an update we haven't had a good night in over 4 weeks now, consistently she is waking every night and has not slept longer than 3.5 hours at a time.

So as I suspected dinner is not the problem so any other ideas why at 7.5 months she is waking every 2.5-3 hours and taking a full feed for the last two months?!?! 

[Candaces]

Also wanted to mention that she is no longer crying when I put her down, I think the night screaming at 6 months was seperation anxiety mixed with being under tired at bedtime.  So at least now she eats and goes right back to bed, but this is the same night schedule she had as a newborn so I know this isn't right!

[Skadiver13]

Not really. Only thing I can think of is it is a Sleep regression and ride it out. Or you could try the longer A in the morning then reduce from there.  A lot of lo's including mine like a longer A time in the morning after a goo dnights sleep and a lower A time in the afternoon as they start to get more tired.  At this age they don't get enough calories from solids to equal what they get from BM and Formula so I still think that reducing solids will increase BM intake but do what you think is best in that area.

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

I agree regarding solids vs bm/formula...also you mentioned finger foods like egg and cheerios? Does she get those frequently? Egg is one of the top allergens and gluten could be a culprit as well.  But then if she isnt disturbed/in pain at night and just wants to eat may not be that! Some days I wish they could tell us what was up!