sh/pat for 10 week old

[1sttimemamma]

Hi! Just starting to think about doing shh/pat for my 10 week old. He's been sleeping in his swing pretty consistently for a couple weeks. He still only takes 30 min naps - sometimes longer. At night, he does great long stretches. Last night it was 8pm to 4am and I only woke him to feed, otherwise he would have slept more.

But, I'm thinking of getting him out of the swing.

So, this morning, he was drowsy after dropping big brother off at school and I swaddled him, put on white noise and put him in the crib. He LOVES looking at his mobile, but it was turned off. I left him alone to coo at the mobile until he started fussing. I put hand on his tummy and patted and he eventually turned his head away from the mobile and closed his eyes. I stayed with my hand on his chest patting for 5 minutes or so. Then left (which I'm guessing was the mistake because he woke up crying.  So I went back in and patted him again until he fell asleep and I stayed with my hand on his chest/belly for 20 minutes. Then I left. Then he woke at the 30 min mark and was upset and didn't fall back asleep after trying for about 10 minutes. So I got him up.

Am i supposed to stay longer? How much time after he wakes at the 30 minute mark do I shh/pat to see if he will go back to sleep? If he wakes at the 30 min mark, how long do I keep him awake until I try again? He's currently so happy and cooing.

His schedule varies so much from day to day and mainly because the short naps and also getting big brother from school and his after school activities.

Yesterday went like this:

Wake 7:30am
Eat 7:45
Nap: 8:55am to 9:17am - I patted him in swing and he fell back asleep till 9:40am
Eat 9:50
Nap 11:37am to 12:10pm. Cried in swing but fell back asleep at 12:30 until 1:20pm
Eat 1:30
Nap 3:20 to 3:40 - in Ergo at Starbucks
Eat 4pm
Nap 5:30 to 6pm
Eat 6:15pm - plus several more attempts and he didn't get comfy until he pooped
Sleep 8pm to 4am
Eat 4am
Wake 6:30am
Eat 6:30am
Sleep until 7:30am

That seems like a crazy day, but that's generally what he does. Not matter what awake times, he's doing short naps.

[nevinsmama]

Hi there! 10 weeks is a good time to try for 1 nap with shh/pat and in the crib if you want.

At this age you would stay by the child patting until he is in a deep sleep. This will gradually redcued when LO is learning independent sleep skills. I believe Tracy says to stay for 20 minutes. If he wakes at the 30 minute mark then I would try to get him back to sleep. If he doesn't go back to sleep I would try for another nap ( I would do the 1st nap of the day in the bed as it is typically the easiest to get and then if you need to AP then that is fine) in an hour. If they short nap, I would cut the next A time by 20-30 minutes. 

Have you read Tracy's sleep interview? I think, even though it is very long, that it is really the best, most precise outline of teaching sleep to these LO's. Here it is if you are so inclined A Special Sleep Interview with Tracy Hogg

Hope this helps! Let us know if you have any more questions.

[1sttimemamma]

Thanks so much! Just to clarify, if he does a 30 min nap then you shorten the Awake time by 20 to 30 min? Can you direct me to the post that shows awake time by age? I can't find it. I aim for 1 hr 15 min awake time but it always ends up around 2 hours awake time. So today he woke at around 8:20am after sleeping 12 hours!! So hubby started nap at 9:30 but he didn't fall asleep until 10 am. Should I try sooner?

[nevinsmama]

Here you go!
Average A times- BOOKMARK ME!

[1sttimemamma]

Ok - more questions.

So, he did a 30 min nap in his swing (10am to 10:30am). He cried upon waking and I watched him for a minute or so from the door. He wasn't hysterical. I came in and patted his tummy and shhhed a bit (but he has a very loud white noise machine). I avoided looking at him, but he was looking and me and eventually started cooing and smiling at me. I just sort of ignored and took my hand off because he wasn't crying. Well after a few more minutes - then he proceeded to get hysterical. He screamed and I would pick him up and hold him until he would calm down and then tried again, but he wasn't having any part of it. This was from about 10:35 to 11am. How long does one try to extend a nap before giving up?

I had last fed him at 8 :20am after a 5am feed, but other than that, no feeds since 7:30pm the previous night. So, at 11am after I had sort of calmed  him my arms, I fed him.

So, at 10 weeks, did I try something that wasn't really necessary? I mean, its generally expected that he will do a 30 min nap and rarely has gone back to sleep after waking at the 30 min mark. Or is this something I will eventually have to do to extend his naps? I'm soooo not ready for that level of crying, broke my heart.

So now he's back in his swing at 11:40am (after the 10:30 am waking) and he's still awake. He was dozing off while breast feeding, but I changed him and he woke right back up. I feel like I will be spending all day in his room attempting to get shorter and shorter awake times. However, most days I can't. I have a 6 year old and he has after school activities 4 days a week.

I just have no idea how to schedule the day and it pretty much just goes haywire at the end of the day, regardless if I've tried hard and watched awake times and nap times or if we've been on the go.

[nevinsmama]

This was from about 10:35 to 11am. How long does one try to extend a nap before giving up?

Well, it is up to you. I believe the book says 45 minutes. With my DD I could always tell in about 20 minutes whether it was going to work or not!

So, at 10 weeks, did I try something that wasn't really necessary? I mean, its generally expected that he will do a 30 min nap and rarely has gone back to sleep after waking at the 30 min mark. Or is this something I will eventually have to do to extend his naps? I'm soooo not ready for that level of crying, broke my heart.

At this age, I would not hesitate to do your choice of AP to try to keep your LO rested! A lot of Mamas don't start sleep training until 3-4 months and if you want to do one nap a day in the crib with the shh/pat and what all then that is fine, otherwise, there is nothing you can do now that can't be gently worked out later. I hear you on the hard crying, it tugs at a Mama heart!

He was dozing off while breast feeding, but I changed him and he woke right back up. I feel like I will be spending all day in his room attempting to get shorter and shorter awake times. However, most days I can't. I have a 6 year old and he has after school activities 4 days a week.

I understand, and you have to decide what works for your family. Honestly, if this had been me, I would have let him fall asleep feeding and just hope he could sleep. I don't mean to be deterring you from your good intentions, just want to say that 10 weeks is still pretty tiny, the world is pretty new and it is OK to do what you need to do sometimes!
Hope this helps!

[1sttimemamma]

Thank you again! So helpful and yes, he is still so little!

[1sttimemamma]

Hi! More questions. So, if DS takes ages to fall asleep the timing of everything goes off. For example if he wakes up at 7 am and eats and try approx an 1 hr 15 min later for nap (so 8:15) but he fights sleep and ends up not sleeping until 9 and then sleeps for 30 min. Now it's 9:30 am and DS eats every 2.5 hrs to 3. So even if he had slept longer for the nap it wouldn't be that much longer due to hunger. Does that make sense? Our whole day and timing is so messed up due to the short naps.

My other question is that he is currently sleeping 12 hours at night, sometimes 13. He will eat once during that time, usually closer to 5am. Does the fact he sleeps so well at night mean anything for naps? I realize this can change and also realize his horrible naps will start to affect his nighttime sleep.

Also, he's a generally happy baby even on such little naps. We were on the go al day yesterday due to big brothers events and DS napped for 20 min at a time in the ergo a couple times. He woke to loud noise or getting put in car seat. He did take a 40 min nap at home after that (around 2 pm) and then we had to leave again. He did another 15 min nap in my arms and woke going into car seat. He cried in the car and never fell back asleep. Got home (around 5:45pn) and tried a nap and he just screamed whenever I laid him down. So I fed him, put on pj and swaddle, fed other side and he was out for the night. But in between all that short napping, he was pretty happy. Same at home after a 30 min nap, he wakes crying but as soon as he is picked up and swaddle comes off, he's a happy boy. And last night as I was trying the 5:30pm nap he was so upset until I brought him into my bedroom and unswaddled, he was so happy. Do I have A times wrong? Is he not truly tired? Are the long nights of sleep affecting A times?

[1sttimemamma]

He slept from 7pm to 8:45am with one feed at 5:45am. What time should his first nap be??

[1sttimemamma]

I'm just going to keep posting questions - sorry!!

So I watched him wake at about 35 min after he fell asleep and it was an immediate painful look on his face and a big cry. Is that how most wake at the 30 min mark? He sort of scrunched up his legs and cried out. Normal?

[nevinsmama]

Hi there, sorry I missed you! Just looking back at your questions and wondering if there is any discomfort possibly at play here? Any signs of reflux, is he gassy maybe?
Wow, what I couldn't have done for nights like you are having when my DD was tiny! How long have you been on current A time again? Maybe he is higher A needs than average?

[shannoncorrin]

I don't have any advice for you, but your little guy sounds EXACTLY like mine!  He is now 14 weeks and we are still dealing with the same thing!  He is a happy little guy and sleeps great at night, so I'm trying not to complain.  But the 30 min naps are killing me.  I get so excited when he sleeps for 45 min! 

[1sttimemamma]

shannoncorrin - I don't mean to be mean, but it's nice to know somebody is in the same boat! We can commiserate together!

Nevinsmama - The nights are great! I know I shouldn't complain about day, but he still needs naps. yes, I do wonder about reflux and gas, but I'm not convinced he has true reflux due to how happy he is and how much he can sleep at night.