16 week old DS's NW issue around 5am and onward

[xinmommy]

hello, I am so glad that I found this forum and have been reading for the past few days. my DS is having all kinds of sleeping issues (i.e. frequent NW's and demanding for feeding, only sleeping in my arms, short naps, nurse to sleep) and the main one that I have no idea how to fix is his NW around 5am...usually I feed him and try to put him back to sleep but he can never go into deep sleep in order for me to put him back to the crib and it lasts until 7,8am when everyone in the house wakes up. By then he and I are both extremely tired and he never has enough hours of sleep (max. 7 hours during the night). We've always had some routine but not the EASY approach, just approximated on daily basis...I just started EASY and the shush/pat approach few days ago when I was desperate about his sleeping issues, and he still has the 5am NW problem. Here is our EASY schedule for yesterday:

8:00am: day starts (although he didn't really sleep since 5:40am), A
9:00am to 9:05am E
10:00am to 10:44am S
11:00am to 11:20am E
12:00pm to 12:47pm S
1:04pm to 1:14pm E
2:20pm to 2:54pm S
2:58pm to 3:05pm E
4:45pm to 5:25pm S
6:20pm to 6:30pm E
7:00pm 8:00pm bedtime routine incl. bath, eat, story
8:00pm sleep

we were having same issue last night, DS didn't sleep well until 8am this morning at which time I had to hold him and he slept until 9am.

DS cried a lot the last few days since shhh/pat introduced and he seemed not as happy as before (now with swallon eyes and poker face most of the time). It hurts to see him like this and sometimes I wonder if I should quite sleep training (seems I'm shhh/pat-ing and he's crying all the time and we don't get much time to have fun any more...)

Any suggestions? not sure if anyone had similar situation?
thanks in advance

[Layla]

Hi and welcome to the BW

How old is he?

[xinmommy]

Thanks...
Sorry to mention that he's 16 weeks old...

I just accidentally hit "report to moderator" instead of "reply"... what do I do?

[Layla]

I just accidentally hit "report to moderator" instead of "reply"... what do I do?

That's ok, I just have to close the report

He's about 3 months? So at that age, we were also battling with very short naps but I think in your case he's also a very overtired little baby so I would probably tone things down a bit and shorten the morning A,especially if he's waking up as early as 5.30am and he is then awake until 10am for his morning nap. I would probably look at putting him down much earlier, so adjusting his schedule to the 5.30am wake up time for a few weeks and then slowly trying to push his day forward. On 7hrs of sleep, he would be one very overtired little bubba, so I think an earlier bedtime would be the key here. Honestly, if he's waking up as early as 5.30am, he should be going to sleep between 5.30-6pm!

How was he falling asleep before? Do you have a wind-down routine? Is his room dark? Have you got white noise? How long do you do shh/pat for? If he's overtired, it will be much harder for him to self settle... have you noticed him wanting to suck his fingers or do you use a dummy? When he wakes 45mins into his nap, do you try and resettle?

[xinmommy]

Hi Layla, thanks for the suggestions... although 5:30pm bedtime is unfeasible for us we will try to move to about 6:30 and see how it goes.

DS has been mostly nursed to sleep and recently I made sure he did not fall asleep right after feeding, but it has always been some sort of prop. (couple of days ago before I started the shah/pat I used to hum through his ear while rocking him until he fell asleep on my shouler.

The current routine is similar to the four 'S' - setting, no swaddling, sitting, putting him in crib for 10 mins to see if he falls asleep on his own (of course never happen) and then shh/pat...he is very resistent on the shh/pat while lying in the crib and screams loudly...sometimes I feel that I could pass out because of too many shh's, so most of the time I leave him on my shoulder until he almost closes his eyes (hope this is not a bad approach). There're times that it would take forever for him to be in deep sleep state and as soon as I stop, he screams; occasionally it takes about 5 to 10min.s to shh/pat. Other times it takes two to three rounds (45 min per round and I'd feed him if he's still awake when 45 min's pass by). The blind is closed when he naps during the day so it is relatively dark.
I tried white noise once but seemed not working. Maybe I'll give more tries? I use bedtime lullaby during 'sitting' to calm him down. DS does suck his fingers but is not able to use for NW's to go back to sleep. I tried W2S twice and was not successful, he screamed so bad and I ended up waking him up completely (he's very good while awake). This afternoon I nursed him at the 45 min's nap waken and he slept for another 45 min's...it was like dreamfeed.

[Layla]

I started the shh/pat with dd2 when she was a little older than your LO (mine was 4mo) and to help me stay sane I did the following:
-attempted shh/pat for a total of 20mins and if there was no S after 20mins, I would get her up, do a small activity and then try again later. If E was due, I would do E and then try for a nap. If she was falling asleep by the breast, I would end the feed and into the cot

-If she woke early from the nap, I would try to resettle for another 15mins (if her nap was 45mins long, or 30mins if nap was 30mins long). If she wouldn't go back to S, I would get her up and move on with the day and bring the next nap forward by 15mins or so.

-our nights got better first (mine was a breast and paci addict and I threw the paci away and stopped feeding her to sleep). At night, I would feed if she woke anywhere from 4hrs onward and try and resettle if it was less.

At 3 months, we were starting to drop the 4th catnap and our morning nap started to lengthen but the rest of the day consisted of 2 catnaps. Short naps can also be developmental so keep that in mind but still, I would look at starting your naps earlier as the wake time in the morning is too long for him.

Let me know how you go 

[xinmommy]

Hi Layla - thanks for sharing your expertise and experience. It is very ecouraging
last night was tiring since DS woke uo at least once every hour (bedtime was from 8pm to 8am) but he did 'sleep' after 5am with frequent wakings...not sure if this is improvement or not. However the daytime naps were improved...1st nap started at 9:40am and lasted for 50 min. his 2nd nap followed after 1hr 40min of A time which was 50 min. long again. He then had 2 hr A time and then the 3rd nap which was 40 min long...I was trying to put him for a CN after another 1hr and 15min which took me 45min and he almost settled but was waken up by a loud noise from neighbour's snowblower.
Since we have an appointment time change DS will start BT around 8 or 8:30pm so I just managed to have him resettle for the CT (6:20pm).
The shh/pat was a little shorter overall and I did put white noise back on. Maybe that's why?
Will see how the night goes with all those naps...fingers crossed!

[xinmommy]

oops he just woke up from the 25 min. nap

[xinmommy]

ok DS was able to sleep somehow in the early morning hours for the last few days...but his NW has dramatically increased (he used to sleep for two long stretches before midnight but now he wakes up almost once every hour). He wants to be fed every time too, and if I don't offer he screams so hard...he's a very happy baby so this breaks my heart

I tried to shush/pat but never worked. His cry escalates as soon as I start 'shhh'. I just read about the 'gentle removal plan' yesterday and offered the breast every time he wanted during NW's...that was in total of 7,8 feeds...is this the right approach? could he be going through growth spurt?

sigh,,,,

[Layla]

He could be going through a growth spurt but 7-8 night feeds is probably a little too much. Does he actually take a feed or is he just using your breast as a prop?

Would you be able to post your EAS, what it looked like that day? How long have you been working on independent sleep and are you at a point where you can put him down awake and leave and he will put himself to sleep?

[xinmommy]

Hi Layla, forgive me that I do not have much time to type. Our EAS is pretty standard - 3 hr with max. 2 hr. A time, if S is 45 or 30 min. I try to short the next A by 15 or 30 min...and that's whar he does (45 or 30 min nap all day)!
for yesterday and today I was able to extend one or two of his naps after he woke uo at the 30 min. mark, but I eventually had to feed him and hold him in my arms for extra sleep time (I couldn't shh/pat when he woke up in the crib, had to pick him up 1st and calmed him down then put back, shh/pat for 6-7 min.s and he wouls sleep for another 5-10 min. and woke up again and this time he wouldn't settle with shh/pat, and I had to feed him even though it was not E time, and then he would sleep for another hour...

I feel so helpless now that I couldn't resettle him during NW's with shh/pat and that becomes the main reason that most of the night time hours are wasted, and his total sleep hours for the night was no more than 6, 7 hours! am I doing something wrong?

[xinmommy]

I forgot to answer your questions Layla...
he does feed every time, but the problem is that he gets gassy later and wakes up more often I think. He would also have bowl movement in the middle of the night, then I had to change him...
He's always been prop'ed to sleep and I have been using shush/pat for 10 days now. I have to shh/pat until he's in deep sleep state.
So far he only fell asleep on his own once.

Last night I managed only feed him at least every 3.5 hours, he was crying for breast, end up only slept for a total of 6.5 hours

[xinmommy]

hi, sorry I haven't been able to provide details...it's been soooo busy with baby and other things.

I finally got the book by Tracy and really enjoyed reading it (although just started). DS's been given me surprises everyday now which makes me so happy...he starts to fall asleep independently (just saying the key words) and is having 1.5 hr nap time...although he still wakes many times during the night but I am not complaining, I know he's trying so hard too and one day he'll get there, and while we are here during MW's I truly enjoy being there for him and I will definitely miss the time.

Thanks Layla for your help and others who had posted stories here for me to read.

[xinmommy]

I am back...
Last I mentioned DS almost became independent sleeper... basically I put him on the side after saying the key words and he would fall asleep for naps and BT. However it gets tricky during NW's: he either wakes up from rolling to his back (I tried to put wedges to prevent him rolling however he got upset and still woke up whenever he decided to turn his head/body, and I had to put him down at a certain angle on the side for him to sleep which only lasted no more than 2 hours, mostly 1 hour or 1.5 hr... so I tried to put him on his back at BT, which took at least 45 min and lots of crying... things seemed got better for one night and last night was disaster. Here is the EASY for yesterday and last night (he started have short naps again few days ago, not sure if it was related to the loud noise from extreme windy weather which couldn't be blocked by white noise):
WU at 8:15am from the night before (slept for a total of 9 hers during 12 hr night which was a record for him)
E        9:00am
A        8:15am - 10:20am
S        10:20am-11:00am
E        12:30pm
A        11:00am-12:45pm
S        12:45pm-1:05pm
E        2:45pm (I bumped this feed because he was due for a nap at 3pm)
A        1:05pm-3:00pm
S        3:00pm-4:00pm then resettled, slept until 5pm
E        5pm
Bath and ate at 7:15pm
BT      8:00pm
NW 8:45pm DH resettled him, had to change his nappy
DF.     10:30pm
NW, 11:00pm, 12:05am, resettled within 10 mins
NW at 1am, not able to settle and he cried on and off for an hour then I fed him at 2:05am, slept until 3:30am
NW's from 3:30am until 7am with continuous effort to resettle but keeps waking up 10-15mins after put down and he cried so hard... had to change him once more at 4pm...
Slept from 7am until 8:15am

I really don't know where this is going? Any input/help is much appreciated.

[Layla]

Sorry to hear things have gone pear shaped again.

He's about 21weeks according to my calculation? From what I understood, he's a tummy sleeper and he wakes himself up when he turns on his back? Unfortunately when they learn a new skill they want to practice it all the time... so it's probably just a phase and I would encourage lots and lots of play time (I did mine in the cot) before nap/bedtime to let him practice and get used to it. Eventually the novelty will wear off.

The other thing I noticed is that your last A is still quiet long, 3 hrs and maybe he's a little overtired still by bedtime (despite the 2hr nap he had). Having short naps (again) is often an indication of needing a little more A and maybe you could try adding a little more A before his 1st nap (so that the A is closer to 2.5hrs) and he may sleep a little longer.