16 week old DS's NW issue around 5am and onward

[xinmommy]

Yes Layla he's about 21 weeks now, and no he does not sleep on tummy but on his sides (he has yet been able to roll to either side and that's the problem when he falls asleep that way but later wakes himself up when tries to roll to his back, either too sudden or he couldn't roll back to the side which makes him upset)... what I am doing right now is trying to put him drowsy on his back but also turn his head and upper body slightly that way he could roll back and forth himself. He does not like that but seems after two nights of doing that he is not so upset anymore and actually fell asleep that way tonight, I guess this is the right approach before he's able to roll?

I do get him for tummy time few times daily. Sometimes in the cot and sometimes on the playmate on the floor... he tries to raise one side of his butt and roll but so far no success, I think it will happen soon. The other thing that I did while he plays in the cot is helping him rolling from back to sides and vice versa, hoping he gets used to the feeling?

Thanks for your advice, I will try to lengthen the morning A and see how it goes.

According to Tracy's book, short night stretches are usually because of calories shortage, so I just started DF at around 10:30pm two nights ago however he still woke up shortly after that and we didn't get any longer stretches... should I drop the DF and just feed whenever he wakes up around 10 or 11 or should I continue the DF for a week?

[xinmommy]

DS woke up at 7:10am this morning (BT at 8:30pm last night) and wasn't able to resettle; however morning nap was 1hr 15min. after morning A was increased to 1hr 15min. thanks Layla!

we will have to make an early BT tonight and let's see how it goes

[xinmommy]

Sorry another question:
Why does DS keep waking up crying after about 10 mins resettle during NW's? This has been really difficult during the night and sometimes can take an hour or two just keep putting him back to sleep, regardless I feed him or not.

[Layla]

You're doing everything you can to help him master the rolling over task and eventually (hopefully sooner rather than later) he will get used to doing it in his sleep and not waking himself up.

Great to hear on the longer nap - I used to hold the same A's for a few days before moving up more just so mine wouldn't get too overtired.

Sorry another question:
Why does DS keep waking up crying after about 10 mins resettle during NW's? This has been really difficult during the night and sometimes can take an hour or two just keep putting him back to sleep, regardless I feed him or not

Maybe he hasn't really resettled and having a difficult time resettling. Do you stay with him until he is asleep?

With regards to the DF - I believe at some point it starts to mess up their night rather than help them sleep longer and I never did the DF so you could experiment with this and let him sleep until he naturally wakes up, give him a feed and see if he will sleep longer?

How did the rest of his day go with naps?

[xinmommy]

Thanks for the encouragement!
yes it seems that he's having difficulty resettling, most of the time I did not stay for another 10 mins after putting him down. I guess from now on that I should stay there longer (say another 10 min's) after putting him down just so I don't have to keep going back.

I think you're right about the DF was messing up his sleep because last night he woke up after exactly same length of sleep but it wasn't my intended DF time yet since he fell asleep sooner than before...I did not feed him and he got really upset, but finally went back to sleep and woke again an hour later and that was after 11pm.

The other two naps were both 45 mins which wasn't so bad...he woke up happily for the first two naps and always cried after the CN.

I will keep experimenting few nights and see how it goes. Will update later (typing on the tablet is really uncomfortable and slow)

[xinmommy]

sigh...
the last couple of days are pretty much similar...10+  NW's and difficult to resettle. The most frustrating part is, DH starts to question if this ST really works, he suggests that perhaps this is how DS is (wakes up hourly, needs to be nursed to sleep, etc.). We had a big argument this morning, I was upset when he said that DS used to smile and be happy during the first 3 months (prior to ST), and always interacted with him, but DS doesn't even look at him most of the time when he came home from work (THIS WAS SOMETHING THE IN-LAWS SAID A MONTH AGO WHEN THEY WERE NOT HAPPY ABOUT the ST and everything else); then DH was not happy when I said the reason that DS did not intereact with him much was because he did not spend enough time with him and did not proper approach him. He got upset and said it was not his fault for not having enough time with our son, since he was the one working right now and DS usually would have to go to bed soon after he came home from work.

sorry for the complaints...

[Layla]

I'm so sorry to hear all that  . It's tough for dads and my DH some days doesn't get to see dd3 at all (we're going through the 2-1 nap transition and on days she only takes 1 nap, i put her to bed as early as 5pm). Could your DH spend some times with him in the morning? Dd wakes up early (6am) and he's home about 1.5 hrs before he heads to work...

Before ST, what were you doing and why did you decide to sleep train? It can be hard for men to understand the need for a routine and sleep training... they don't see most of it during the day (the effects of). Dh was not very supportive of it too with dd1 and 2 and wanted me to wing it and the in-laws and my mum were not much helpful either and thought 6.30pm bedtime was ridiculously early but with dd3, dh was (and is) a lot more involved and if she needed to be resettled at night (during the ST times), I would ask him to do it. He didn't feel comfortable but still tried and she would actually settle better with him and that gave him the confidence to do it (I used to take over all the time with dd1 and 2, which didn't help). Do you think your DH would be able to help you with the night wakings?

Enough rambling... that is a lot of nightwakings.... so going back to him sleeping on the side... is he waking up because he's rolled over? Maybe you're helping him too much to resettle and he is expecting it? Is he just mantra crying or properly crying the "I need you mummy" cry? How is his daytime sleep? Would you be able to post what the last couple of days have looked like?

[xinmommy]

Layla---thanks for your toughtful words...it had been a very difficult time for the last few weeks and we ended up going to see therapist for relationship counselling, and with the in-laws not living with use any more things got better between DH and I, and you can see that I finally have time to come back here!
DS still has many NW's and some nights are easier to settle than others...I only need to feed him 2 to 3 times during night sleep which is great. I think he's also ready for the 3 to 2 nap transition which is what we are doing now. We are also expected to start solid in the next week or two. Lots of things happening at the same time...can I post the EAS after we finish the nap transition? I'd also like to see if that will improve the NW situation.

WRT the ST, DS was fed on demand and nursed to sleep for about 15 weeks, and it got to a point that I had to hold him in my arms the whole time for night sleep and naps, and he was constantly fed to go back to sleep whenever woke up, and that was not enough...he did not sleep so well and neither did I. So I did some research and it got me here...

There's a big improvement for DS: he became an independant sleeper recently. I put him in the crib awake and he'd play for few minutes and fall asleep after I leave the room...however he still needs me for most of the NW's to go back to sleep. We tried to let him cry (I think it was mantra cry) for 1 minute or 2 and he'd go back to sleep on his own for few times, maybe one out of twenty times?

[Layla]

Hi again and thanks for the update. I hope everything between you and DH... having a baby can be very challenging so big hugs to you .

If you need help with the 3-2 nap transition, let me know and I'd be glad to share what worked for us. For example, when extending A times, we sort of worked on one at a time and I found taking my LO out of the house very helpful as she would otherwise get very bored and I'd take that as a sign of being tired and put her down too early. Also, I found an earlier bedtime better than doing the catnap... but it all depends on what works for your LO.

With regards to mantra vs real cry... if he's just mantra crying, I would say its better to leave him alone and it sounds like he's getting better and better at self soothing, if it only takes him 1-2mins to get back to sleep.

Keep me posted

[xinmommy]

Hi Layla, thanks for the tips...I sort of did similar things as you mentioned (take him out of the house, early bedtime). He's on 2.75 A time now and is having 2 naps (one 2hr nap and one 1 hour to hour and 15 mins)most of the week...the problem with early BT has been that he would wake up very frequent during the 1st half of the night (i.e. every 30-40 mins), is it OT or UT? or perhaps it's associated with teething? Although I did not see him drooling a lot yet DS turned 6 mths yesterday and has his 1st tooth (just a tiny white came out), and I just started giving him rice cereal this morning, he loved it.
So lots are happening at the same time...it's nice to know that I can always get help here

[xinmommy]

I think we've completed the 3-2 nap transition...though we may need a catnap today (the morning nap was on 24 mins!)

WRT falling asleep independantly, I feel like we're going backwards. DS was put down awake and would fall asleep by himself, but recently he needs me there everytime! I had to either let him hold my hand or put my hand on his back until he fell asleep...is this normal?