LO getting enough?

[*Ali*]

I'm a bit of a control freak to so I understand where your DH is coming from but I have learnt that babies do not fall into what I want and I need to respond to their needs despite my need for control. I think he is only making things harder in you all.

As Amanda says BF research has moved on significantly since the books were published and we like to think Tracy would have updated her advice in light if this has she still been with us.

Breast milk is completely digested after 2hrs btw.

Do you know how many ounces your LO takes at day care?

[didiosa1980]

Right now he takes 4 ounces every 2-3 hours...so a total of 12 ounces while he is in daycare for 9 hours. I also feed him at 6'ish AM and another around 6 to tank him up. So he usually gets a 3 - 4 per feed (depending on me and production and time of day). Since he starts daycare on Monday, I'm also checking to see if we should up his 4 to 4.5 per feed and see if he can take that.

I'm considering adding another feed for now, which would also mean another diaper change and hopefully keep him from waking via soiling himself. I'm going to see what hubby thinks of a 6PM cluster, 9 PM, midnight, and 3AM feed. This adds only one more feed in, it's still within a reasonable time of the 2 hours digestion of milk, and LO usually wakes around midnight and 3-4 anyway. LO seems to top out around 2.5 - 3 hours for his best sleep time anyway. I think this might be what LO needs, but since hubby is kind of 'by the BW book' right now, I need his ok before I wake to sleep and feed. Somehow, I get the feeling this would solve a few more problems and it's not like it would change MY night wakings anyway.        I think this would help my production too...so everyone wins.

[*Ali*]

On average a 6mo needs 25oz of breast milk but the normal range can be up to 32oz for some LOs. So if he is only have 12oz at daycare then he probably needs more than that again to make up his total intake. Is he finishing the bottles? He shouldn't be draining them, there should always be a bit left so you know he has stopped drinking because he is full rather than the milk has run out. Mine probably could have managed 5oz at this age so definitely worth a try offering more.

Don't forget to tell your husband what we said about the BFing advice in the book being outdated. Maybe he wouldn't be so rigid if he knew that.

There is also a growth spurt around 6mo so it could be he is going through that as well.

I assume you will just feed him if he wakes at those times and you won't actually wake him up for the NFs right?

[didiosa1980]

I never know the status of the bottles. I think we'll add .5 and see how it goes. I don't know the new daycare's status on reusing BM if there is any left over (despite me totally sticking any remainder in the fridge and reusing it later  ).

I will inform the man that the book is outdated. He's on board with the 3 night feedings, so I'm excited to get that started tonight.

As far as the growth spurt, I didn't know if LO had passed that or not. He was 6 months as of 1/21 and I saw spurts were only a few days, so I figured it had already passed.

As far as the 3 feeds, we might wake him initially to adjust, but I hope once we get the 3 hour timeline down, he'll adjust on his own and then let us know more when we need to feed him and possibly even extend his sleep times little by little as he grows out of the extra feed. A lot of his sleep times range the 1.5 hour mark, so of course I will try PU/PD to get him back for the remaining timeline.

[*Ali*]

Hmm well I don't think it will help to wake him for feeds if he is sleeping. I think you should respond to his cues rather than try to fit him into a predetermined timetable but of course it is up to you.  Good luck.

[weaver]

Just to add, I did when he was very little (5 days old!) have to wake LO1 up like clockwork every 3 hours 24 hours a day to feed him but that was an 'emergency' response to get him to feed more at that delicate stage.  We only did it for 2 or 3 days.  Then we switched to every 3 hours during the day (and waking him if necessary) but letting him sleep as he needed, and wake as he needed, at night.  I'm pretty sure the idea of every 3 hours only applies during the day.

[Fiver]

I think you should respond to his cues rather than try to fit him into a predetermined timetable but of course it is up to you

I agree with this.  Sadly, it's likely to make more problems for you in the future.  He knows when he's hungry and will let you know so that you can respond accordingly.

And GSs can last for around a week, at least.

[didiosa1980]

Friday night I tried to implement the +1 feed. I ended up doing 4 feeds from around 6:30P till around 5:15A. However, Friday night - Saturday morning went VERY well. Whenever LO woke, I changed him and fed him and put him back and he went down with hardly any resistance. His smallest sleep stretch was 1 hour 44 minutes; longest being 2 hours 43 minutes. This was WITHOUT any PU/PD! I informed hubby of this and he sighed as if 'we're putting him on a shorter schedule and letting him suck to sleep', which he has complained of in the past. (Quick side note: which forum do I go for the whole 'need to suck' part??) Saturday night - Sunday morning, I tried the same thing, although I complied with hubby's 'keep his feedings to a stretch of 3 hours' 'suggestion'. There were still 4 wake periods and I did one session of PU/PD, which did get LO to sleep for another hour. His shortest time last night was 1 hour 53 minutes and longest of 3 hours 12 minutes (that's the PU/PD spot).

I think at this stage of the learning, LO knows how to fall asleep in his crib because he does it and once he's out, he's usually out. He has NEVER slept longer than 4 hours ever in his little life and when I informed hubby of 'this might be a milestone for LO', he still seemed to think we were regressing LO to go on a 3/3 schedule instead of the 4/4 that (again) 'he's supposed to be on for his age'. He thinks that feeding LO every 2.5 - 3 hours overnight will hurt him with daycare during the day. I informed him of the age of the book and that there aren't a whole lot of 'rules' to help train LO during the night. I have a feeling hubby is getting stuck on the 'for his age' and 'he's supposed to by now' parts from the book since we have nothing else to go by. I don't know what else to tell him other than: LO doesn't really scream unless he's hungry, tired, or didn't want to be put down in the first place (this usually goes with the crib on occasion). After getting LO used to his crib, I can now see he's totally a textbook / angel baby. I have a feeling we're ignoring some of the cues and getting stuck on schedules and shoulda/coulda/woulda.

[*Ali*]

Does he take a dummy at all? Does he have a little blankie/lovey/ muslin he can suck on and hold to his face when settling to sleep?

Maybe if you can get the milk intake up in the day that will help. Don't underestimate the effect that not being able to breastfeed during the day will have on his desire to do so at night.

[didiosa1980]

He has never taken well to a pacifier at our house. There have been a few times he's done so at gma/gpa's house, but hubby wanted that stopped because of the prop/comfort object blurriness in the book. LO is almost the point where he can start putting things in his mouth, but he lacks the dexterity to be able to grab the pacifier and put it in his mouth...thus hubby worried we'd become a prop. We both figure by the time he's old enough to use a pacifier is about the time he should probably stop. 

We are working on getting him used to clutching hold of a stuffed toy, which he has done at gma/gpa's. We weren't sure of the best option for doing so, other than putting it in front of his face and walking away. I've used the stuffed animal a little bit when he's awake and he grabs it, but never keeps hold of it as if he doesn't want to let go.

I am planning on increasing his bottles to 4.5 ounces to see how he handles a higher ounce. This would give him anywhere from 1.5 - 2 more for 9 hours while he's away. Sad thing is, if he takes 3 bottles x 4.5 ounces that equals 13.5 and I don't make that much in 9 hours, so I'm worried about my output. I certainly can't make 15 ounces unless I pump in the morning after LO feeds before work or after LO goes to bed after his cluster feed. We are introducing solids as well, but hubby said there seemed to be a lot of chunks in his diaper. He didn't think LO was even digesting anything yet. There doesn't seem to be any constipation or noticeable discomfort from it though... 

[*Ali*]

Chunks of food in the diaper is exactly what you should expect to see in a baby starting solids. That is great.  It means he is eating it His body needs time to learn how to digest all this new food.  It has only be digesting breast milk for 6 months so this is all new.

Try wearing the lovey in your bra so it smells like you.  Hold it between you two as you bf him.  He will begin to associate it with comfort.  You can even stroke his cheek with it while you wind him down and then give it to him in the crib when you put him down.

[didiosa1980]

I think hubby doesn't want to use a pacifier. I'm borderline yes/no. I know that he needs to suck on something and has been using my fingers instead...probably as a comfort tool too I bet?

I'm hoping that the daycare can interact with him and use their BW techniques and monitor what he needs so we can try to do so at home and help him grow for the week. I would love if he got a few more hours of sleep at night and hope that the 1.5 more will do him some good. Not even a month ago, he would spit up if he took more than 4 ounces and now I hear he's ravenous if he finishes a 4 ounce bottle. I just hope that adding the solids to his diet during the day help him out... 

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

Personally I would up the bottle even more (I was never very successful with pumping so we mix fed).

Let your dh know that at this point it doesnt really matter what he is absorbing from the solids....the whole "before one, food for fun" is an apt message as they need their nutritional needs met from bm or formula. If he is not having discomfort then it is all good!

[didiosa1980]

Well, I'm hoping that LO doesn't need more than the 3 bottles while he's at daycare. I certainly can't make that much in the whole day, let alone the pumping time when I'm separated from LO. I'm hoping if his naps regulate then he WILL only need 3, to which we can up to the 15 ounces I make throughout the course of the whole day. I'm going to have the care provider keep an eye on him for the next 2-3 days and if she thinks his eating needs to go up, then I will. I'm hoping he will get back on the 2 1.5 hour naps + 45 minute catnap. Sometimes he does, sometimes he doesn't.

I did inform hubby that I plan on feeding most of the times LO wakes up. If eating more during the day really does help and LO gets his milk and avocado all week, maybe the overnight stuff will work itself out. I think the book mentions that somewhere...

[*Ali*]

Yes getting more calories in the day should definitely help him need less at night over time.