Author Topic: What is the best way to handle SA in a former independant sleeper?  (Read 2558 times)

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Offline My little Liam

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Re: What is the best way to handle SA in a former independant sleeper?
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2014, 09:50:17 am »
He ended up asleep for nap yesterday at 1320. We are still getting screaming for naps.
Bt is  much better but he will not settle to sleep with less than a 5hr A time if nap is1.5hrs or more. Yesterdays nap was 1hr45.
This was yesterday
WU 0615
Nap pd1300 asleep 1320-1505 with a lot of screaming when pd. I cant figure out why... It is so unlike him!
Bt asleep at 2005
NW 2220-2230
NW co at 0515
WU 0640

He is so restless in the early morning, tossing and turning a lot. Considering he will not sleep with less than a 5hr A how do i get a shorter day? What could cause the restlessness? Do ot or ut cause this? Or just developmental? It had been at least 2 weeks now if not more...



Offline My little Liam

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Re: What is the best way to handle SA in a former independant sleeper?
« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2014, 12:43:42 pm »
Total nap refusal today. He went between babbling and screaming
I am now thinking its a mix of his molars and nap refusal/nap dropping. He says he has pain at the back of his mouth, although i do take what he says regarding pain with a grain of salt because he likes to say all kinds of stuff about pain... But, i think i feel a bump and that tooth has bothered him before about 2 months ago, so maybe...
When do you think i should do bt if wu was 640? I will medicate beforebt and hopefully it will help.
Considering i *maybe* only feel a small bump under the gums how long is this gonna take? We cant have screamfest and horrible sleep for months, can we????

About nap dropping, I guess the fact that he needs at least 5hr A before BT and ew I should actually push the nap instead of making it earlier. Today is the first day I tried to bring it back to 1300 and it totally backfired with the nap refusal. He was in there until 1345 when I got him up. So should I push the nap instead of bringing back? If so, should I still keep it at 1.5hrs or cut it more? Would NND's be a better option? How does that work?
« Last Edit: February 19, 2014, 13:57:15 pm by My little Liam »


Offline ZacsMumme

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Re: What is the best way to handle SA in a former independant sleeper?
« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2014, 01:26:28 am »
I think if your medicating and seeing no difference in his sleep patterns then no its unlikely to be just pain. What I have seen happen a lot is that LO go through a rough patch starting around 15/16 months (developmental WW leap) then this leads into teething and the 18 nth sleep regression. Once it is all over, or things have settled LO is then a bit lost on what they need, how to settle themselves, and then end up in an UT/OT loop, or needing some ST again. We were lucky in that one or two nights of WI/WO always worked well, but both my boys love their beds, and have never wanted to settle with us in the room or on us unless really sick. (believe it or not this can actually be a PITA ;) )

I think he is too young for NND, unless its the odd one, I really do.

heres what I think could work, it will be hard but things are hard already hun aren't they? I am not saying you need to do this ok. Its only if your ready and comfortable.

* I would go for a longer first A. 5.5 hrs A. Nap and 5 hrs A to BT. Id be tempted to push that first A to 6hrs if this doesn't work but id give it a good week.
* WU is no earlier than 6am. If it is the day doesn't start till 6. Keep him in his room in the dark. Even fi you have to lie with him.
* Naps and BT. - No more sitting in his room till he falls asleep, same with NW. You explain to him before his nap and bt the day you start several times through the day etc that he will sleep in his room and mummy is always there if he needs you. Mummy can hear you if you need me. But, mummy isn't going to stay in your room anymore till you fall asleep. You do BT/Nap routine. Stay maybe 5 mins extra for cuddles/comfort/reminder then you leave. You stand outside the door and only when he does an I need you cry (not a tantrum) do you go back in. Comfort. then leave in no longer than 5 mins. This could take hours. Abandon the nap after 45mis if you have too and BT you continue till asleep.
* You can use your voice to comfort from outside the room.
* Do not wake in the morning unless he sleeps past 7/7.30 and let him sleep up to 1hr45 for his nap to start with

He will be angry, he will be sad, he will probably scream. But, I think he has forgotten how to sleep on his own and this will help him learn that he can do it and that you will come if he needs you but you won't stay with him all night, every night. That he doesn't call the shots on naps and BT. YK? He will get OT, but you can use EBT to manage this. He will eventually sleep I promise. You will likely want to get some ear plugs :-/

What do you think? - You do not have to do this ok, Im just giving you an option to move forward if you think your ready and he needs it ok. I will hold your hand through this  xxx

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Offline Lindsay27

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Re: What is the best way to handle SA in a former independant sleeper?
« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2014, 02:13:16 am »
Hi Maya, we had a blip in sleep at one point that sounds like a lot of what you are going through.  I think it was mostly a molar/developmental (language) leap, but who really knows.

Id be tempted to push that first A to 6hrs if this doesn't work but id give it a good week.
I agree with this - Ben's first A time is usually 6, even 6.5hrs (but he's prone to EWs which makes that A time longer), so his second A is usually only around 4.5/5hrs (WU 6am, Nap 12:30-2:30, BT 7/7:30pm) but he's usually tired enough for BT

Naps and BT. - No more sitting in his room till he falls asleep, same with NW.
^ This.  My CM could always get him to nap beautifully, but at home, we were having to sit with him in order to get him to fall asleep otherwise it was complete hysterics.  Eventually I just bit the bullet and decided enough was enough, and I gave him some cuddles, laid him down, and left.  I would talk to him through the door "Mommy is right here, lie down, time for sleepy" reassuring him.  I would have to go in sometimes, but honestly I often found that made it worse and just reassuring from the door was the best thing.  It was exhausting.  DH was always better at it than me, but eventually he went back to sleeping independently.  Sometimes we still have issues, but I do not stay in his room.  I think it was becoming a habit for him and he was getting used to having me there (sigh, even writing this makes me sad because what mommy doesn't want to cuddle her kiddies to sleep?).  I think maybe pushing that first A might help a little with the nap.  We never had any issues settling at BT though, thank goodness, but I did have to do it for some NWs and followed the same process.

But, I think he has forgotten how to sleep on his own and this will help him learn that he can do it and that you will come if he needs you but you won't stay with him all night, every night.
Pretty much what happened with us!



Offline My little Liam

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Re: What is the best way to handle SA in a former independant sleeper?
« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2014, 12:56:08 pm »
I totally agree that all of his former independant sleep has gone a bit down the drain the past few months. My mother is visiting us the next few days so i will start ST once she leaves.

I noticed that you recommended a 6hr A. Liam goes to daycare every morning and is not home until 1300 so nap cannot be before then. When we were getting good sleep we were doing nap at 1315-1330 with wu around 7 so he can handle a bit more than a 6hr A nicely, a 6hr A or less always got us a short nap. At the moment he is getting closer to a 7hr A with these EW but there is not much i can do because of daycare.

So, considering nap cannot be before 1300, how do you think we should plan our day?


Offline ZacsMumme

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Re: What is the best way to handle SA in a former independant sleeper?
« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2014, 01:18:34 am »
A longer first A is ok Hun, maybe try a fixed nap of 1.15pm or 1.30pm. Give 1hr45 to start with and see how he goes with BT at approx 7.15/7.30 the long first A will mean he may need an earlier Bt to start with - plus he will get OT from ST but he will come right :-*

Once your mum has left, or your close to st give us a bell and we will help you through the ST x
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DS2 Our cheeky chipmunk. Reflux, MSPI.

Offline My little Liam

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Re: What is the best way to handle SA in a former independant sleeper?
« Reply #21 on: March 05, 2014, 12:47:39 pm »
hi sara,
just wanted to update. after my mom left i started to st again. i really didn't need to do that much actually as he started screaming less the last few days before we started the st. i think a lot of it was developmental. anyways, we are back to IS and things are pretty good! lets hope it keeps up!

this is what we aim for
wu 645/7
nap 130-3
bt 745/8

does that sound ok?


Offline ZacsMumme

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Re: What is the best way to handle SA in a former independant sleeper?
« Reply #22 on: March 06, 2014, 07:00:10 am »
Looks good :) glad he is settling down on his own. So much of this is developmental and it's such a struggle isn't it! :-*

Well done!
***Sara***
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DS1 - Our sensitive soul. Silent reflux.

DS2 Our cheeky chipmunk. Reflux, MSPI.