13 month baby boy never sleep though, always early wake up and play

[roututu]

My 13 month boy has never sleep though the night since born.
His biggest sleep issue to me is that he can not sleep long during the night.
He always wake up at 3 to 4 AM, and up for a long time, like 1h30m - 3h, typical is 2h, then go back to sleep around 5 AM, then wake up at 7:00 or 7:30AM
Sometimes he can sleep though (wake at 2 or 3AM, but go back to sleep soon, like 20min) to 5:00AM, and up until the breakfast time 7:00 AM,  then go back to sleep at 8:30 or 9:00AM.

If he wake up and cry, and he usually would go back to sleep within 30 min.
But if he wake up without cry, then he will start to play in his bed.

He sleep in his own bed, but in the same room with me (we can not offer a separate room for him now),  and had a sleep routine: bath, bottle feed, brush teeth, then dim light, put him to his bed, let a toy to play a quite music.

I started sleep training together with my husband 20 days ago to remove night and solve night awake issue:
When it came to his bed time,  I will do the sleep routine and I will lay on my our bed to wait him to sleep, and he will cry after a while, then I will go to help him to calm down (put my hand on his body(he was rolling in the bed time to time) and whisper to him "go to sleep" over and over,  and he can go to sleep no more 20 minutes for night sleep (nap may take a little bit longer sometimes).
I would do the same work if he woke up and cry during the night.
But if he woke up not cry, but play. I did not know how to force him back to sleep.
- At the beginning, He would play by himself for a while(I would pretend I was sleeping at this time)
- Then He would stand up and face to me, and cried aloud to ask me to response to him. And I put him down and whisper to him "go to sleep", then he tried to stand up over and over, and I also put him down over and  over, it will last for quite a while (like 30 minutes), however he took this as game, since he was ready to be put down before I lay him down.
- He tied and would not try to stand up that much then but still not sleep (sylphlike, touch the handrail of his bed etc, suck finger), it may last for a while, I feel like 20 to 30 minutes, if wake up at 5 PM or later, this play time will last more (over 1 hour )
- Then cry, I try to put my hands on him and speech to him, but not work well, If I pick him up(not more than 5 minutes), he will stop cry after a while, but cry more load when put down. So I change to not to pick him up, only put down when he tried to getup(not fully stand up). He would cry to a long time (like 10 or 20 minutes), and stop for a while but still could not sleep, and recurred and calm again. and this will last for 30 minutes or more.
So he had always keep awake over 1h30m or 2h. And this time is really hard to me and it already last for several month.

He had teeth issue for over 1 month, and seems have "Separation Anxiety" too .

Besides, he was not use pacifier for over one and half month. He had no special lovie so far. And He had EASY since 5 month to 6 month (he is an angle at day, but little Devil at night. But disordered when 12 month (after an illness)

This is his day time routine (sine morning weak up time is flowing, it really hard to make EASY), and A time is about 4 hours

Routine  1) if eary awake
5:00 getup & play
7:00 bottle milk (5oz)
8:00 breakfast (grain&vegetable, sometime have little meet or egg)
9:00 nap 1h30m
10:30 fruits
11:30 bottle milk (4 or 5oz)
12:20 lunch (grain&vegetable&meet)
14:00 fruits
14:30 nap 1h30m or 2h
17:00 bottle milk (5oz)
18:00 dinner (noodle&vegetable&meet)
19:45 bath
20:10 bottle milk (6 or 7oz)
20:30 or 21:00 sleep

Routine  2) if fall back to sleep
7:00 wake up
7:30 bottle milk (5oz)
8:15 breakfast (grain&vegetable, sometime have little meet or egg)
10:00 fruits
11:00 bottle milk (4 or 5oz)
11:00 nap 1h30m
12:30 lunch (grain&vegetable&meet)
14:30 fruits
16:30 nap 1h30m or 2h
18:00 bottle milk (5oz)
18:40 dinner (noodle&vegetable&meet)
20:10 bath
20:40 bottle milk (6 or 7oz)
21:00 sleep

Now second nap is a little big late in routine 2).
I tried to let him take 1 naps, but not work.
I don't know how to adjust the routine now.

I have a lot of questions and really need help.

[roututu]

anyone can give out any suggestions?

[LovelyLilyandJack]

Hello and hugs for the long nws. My little boy has a tendency to do this and it's horrible My first thought is that he's getting s lot of day sleep and it's probably taking away from his nights. They only need so much sleep iykwim? You probably need to try capping one of his naps and making his day shorter - around 12-13 hours.  Have you tried anything like that before?

Plus,  although he may not be ready for one nap yet, he may be starting the transition to one nap, where 2 full naps is too much?  I'll be back in a sec with some links for you....

[LovelyLilyandJack]

Here you go.

10/ 11mo sleep gone wonky? Read this first! (2-1 switch)
Typical Amounts of Day and Night Sleep
Chronological EASY samples, 13+ months
Support Thread for 2-1 Nap Transition cont'd pt 6

Also, at this age I believe the advice is usually not to pick up in the night.  I had to be quite firm with my daughter to teach her that night time was for sleeping,  not playing or social calls! It'll be easier if he's more tired at night from capping his naps, but I would try not to pick him up and try to just soothe him with your voice,  and only then if he's properly crying.  If he's playing,  moaning or just whinging on and off then I would ignore him. You might need to adapt the advice in the following link if he's in with you, but you could do something like WIWO but turn away instead of walking out, iykwim?

Walk In/Walk Out vs. The Gradual Withdrawal Method (HOW TO CHOOSE)

I hope some of that is useful. There really is nothing worse than hearing your LO wake,  looking at the clock and knowing you're going to be up for at least 1.5hrs

[roututu]

So many thanks for reply and the links you put here.
In fact, I hadread the previous 4 links before I start the training.
I did  try to short his morning sleep but only for 3 days, but not work well, the night sleep mode was not change.
So I went back to 2 normal nap again, and he slept better at first(can sleep until 5:30 several days). But got worse again these days.
May be I should reconsider it again and stick to it longer.

And I do ignore his moaning or just whinging in most of the night, I only put him down when he getup then lay back to my own bed.
But his mode is that he play for like 20 minutes, then stand up and cry out to my bed direction, then I put him down.
This can repeat for 2 or 3 times (then 1hour or 1h30m is passed), so he will awake for 1h30 to 2h or more in this way.

Yesterday, I change a little bit hoping to reduce the awake time at night: I laid him down instead of waiting him fully stand up, and put my hands on him to avoid him to get up again. At first, he got quite down for several time and I thought he was going to sleep, but he cried out after 10 or 15 minutes quite. This was lasted from 3:30 to 5:00. At the end, He was got very angry and cried very loud (sound very depressed) that he can not settle down to sleep. It was a really crazy terrible time and lasted for almost 1 hour. My words and touch could not clam him down at all. At last, My husband could not stand for it and give him a bottle of mile (5oz), then he slept finally. But wake at 8:00 (so total sleep time was only 7h30m)
So  I am not that sure if he cried so loud because of hanger or just upset.

As to Walk In/Walk Out OR gradual Withdrawal Method, It's hard to me I think as I can not prepare him a separate room now (and in coming 1 years).Therefore I have no where to go but only sleep with him in same room.
So if I turn away (like sit besides his bed but not face to him or lay back on my own bed), it seems made him more angry.
But he seems not that angry with my husband when he do so (my husband always leave him alone when he is not cry). However, my husband have to travel time to time. So I have to find my own way too.

[LovelyLilyandJack]

It's really hard,  isn't it?  I tend to find when jack does this that he's going to be awake for at least 1.5hrs, regardless of what I do,  so I just try not to introduce any APing in the meantime! I think if you stick to only responding to real crying,  just using your voice to settle him (apart from helping him to lie down if you feel he needs it) and not responding to him in the meantime then you're doing all you can.  I would turn away still if it were me,  even if it is annoying him, but at the very least I would avoid eye contact unless he's really crying.

When you cut his morning nap, how much did you cut it by?  Did you reduce the next A time as well? I think that's worth trying again, but it might take a bit of trial and error to get the right mix. Maybe try something like:

WU: 7
A: 3hrs 30
S: 45 minutes (10.30 - 11.15)
A: 3hrs 45
S: 1hr 30 (3 - 4.30)
A: 4hrs
S: 7.30

What do you think?

Is there anything else going on with him at the moment?  Any developmental stuff? I've found we get more long nws at 3-5am when jack is mastering a new skill. Could that have anything to do with it?

[roututu]

Thanks again for your patient and constructive suggestions.
So I should ignore him and pretend I am sleeping while he is playing(stand up, moaning or just whinging)
About real crying - does the cry to look for me count?
But if he cry aloud and very upset, he can not hear my voice at all(or he doesn't want to hear anything at all at that moment) , should I go to his bed and touch him to comfort him?

Besides, last time I cut his morning sleep from 1h30m to 1h, and I did not short his A time, because he could still stay 4 hours most of the times.
I will try to follow your time plan and see how it goes.

He may have teeth issue, because he always wake up at night and put his fingers to his mouth so deep (Molar teeth place), while there are 4 teeth are just show up(but this already for over half month, I don't know how long it will take)
And may go through "Separation Anxiety" too, as he go back to me time to time while he play and ask me to pick him up. He can standup beside couch/bed/cabinet, but can not stand alone and work now.
Anyway, I can not wait and find a better time slot (that I thought before), since there are always something going on.

I will update if I get some progress.
Thanks

[LovelyLilyandJack]

It could well be teething which is causing the nws  But like you say, if he's always done this then you may as well see if anything else helps.  It might just take a while for you to be able to properly tell if it's working or not if there's teething in the mix as well.  I would just give meds as soon as he wakes - or some people give dream meds an hour or so before he typically wakes. You could try that.

Regarding settling,  you've got to do what you feel comfortable with - it's a balance between helping him to settle and making things as uninteresting as possible for him so he doesn't start wanting / expecting help from you.  My lo is the same in that he cries so loudly he can't hear me at first but I go and stand next to his cot,  sshh him, say it ok, it's sleepy time etc, until he calms.  He might not hear me straight away, but does within a minute.  If he's really not calming I do stroke his head once or rub his arm briefly,  just to get his attention, but he normally knows I'm there anyway and now calms quite quickly once he knows I'm near. But, yes, I'd ignore everything but a real,  escalating cry and even then, only go and stand next to him to soothe him. When he's calm, go back to bed and listen for the next real cry.  I even count to 20 sometimes to check to myself it is escalating, and not him trying to settle himself as I found with my daughter that she needed some space and time to settle herself.

Let me know how you get on with capping that nap.....