Bad NWs - does this sound like I've got an OT baby?

[Kst33]

Hi,

I'm really struggling to understand my 8 month old NWs and I think I've just made a big mistake and made our bad nights 100 times worse!

Does this sound like OT behaviour? Or am I completely off?

The last two nights  - he's done a 3 hr stretch asleep after BT with a couple of dummy re-plugs  - which is fairly normal behaviour.
But then he's been impossible to settle and when he does sleep, it's only been for between 30 mins and 1 hr and then he's awake again and the battle to settle starts again. This has gone on all night / both nights.

He's fussing and moaning - head moving from side to side. Arms pretty jerky and rubbing eyes a lot. Escalates to a cry if I take my hand away / stop ssh pat and he gets more and more frustrated the longer it goes on. As soon as I picked him up - eyes shut and he goes to sleep. But wakes as soon as I put him back in bed.

I'm thinking OT - so my plan today is to pull back A times, have a really quiet and gentle day - and very early to bed. But if I've got OT wrong...that's going to make it worse!!

The very brief background to this is - one month of long NWs (2hrs) so he's not had more than 9 hrs sleep a night for ages. So I increased A times this week to try and sort the NWs - but I think I increased too fast / too quick and possibly he was OT anyway - so I should have decreased if anything!! Hence making things a lot worse than they already were.

Any thoughts or ideas would be really appreciated. My brain seems to have stopped working and I've run out of ideas a bit!

Thanks v much.

Karen

[Layla]

Hi Karen, big ((hugs)) for the night wakings.

Would you be able to post your daytime routine? What are his A times at the moment and how much did you increase them by?

I agree in general pulling back on A's and doing an earlier bedtime helps them catch up on sleep so hopefully your plan works

[Kst33]

Thanks so much for replying Layla. My plan didn't really work!

Routine wise - before this week we were on about 3 or 3.10hrs A time and normally 1hr 25 naps morning and afternoon. Getting one long NW per night.
I increased to 3hrs 20 for all three A's in one day. (Yep -I regret that now!!) We've had a couple of instances recently of refusal of afternoon nap... which with the NWs made me wonder if he needed an A push...
 
He's EBF, fed on WU and then before bed (4 times during day). Solids - morning and lunch about 1 and half hrs after BF.
Still doing 2 night feeds - aim for 4 hrs - sometimes it ends up being 3hrs in the early part of the night and then 5 / 6 hrs for the second part.
Also noticed that's he's needing a lot more help to go to sleep at the moment. I've been working on gradual removal and we'd got to the point where I could be just in the room / not near or touching him and quite often even out of the room (he also has a dummy). Now it's back to ssh pat / hand on him to sleep. So many steps backwards 

I've put routine details below - probably far too much info.

Do you think I should try and stick with something for a least 3 days? Having written it all down here - I've realised how inconsistent I'm being... whereas up to now we were a bit like clock work with our times. Maybe stick with 2.45 A times for a few days? Seems quite short but I'm guessing today was a really over tired day and I need to get that sorted somehow?!

I suppose at least once I'm back to just 1 long NW - then I can work on a plan to sort that out! Never thought sleep could be soooo complicated :-)

Thanks again all for any help or thoughts. I'd be entirely lost without this forum.

Karen



This week we've had: 

Mon:
WU - 6.55
1st A time = 3hr 10 and 1st nap = 1hr 35
2nd A time = 3hr 30 and 2nd nap = 1 hr 20 (I tried nap at 3.10 A - but he wouldn't so tried at 3.30 A)
Bedtime 19:30 A time - 3hrs.
Slightly better night than we've had - no major NW until 4am.

Tues
This is when I bumped A times to 3.20 for every A time - stupid of me!!

WU 7.40
1st A time = 3.20 and 1st nap = 1hr 45
2nd A time = 3.20 and 2nd nap = 50 mins
Bedtime 20:20 A time = 3.20. (Tried earlier - but took ages to get him to go to sleep)
Slept ok for 2 hrs then had awful night - unsettled every 30 mins  / 1hr. Really hard to settle and get into deep sleep. Ssh Pat until my hand ached!

Wed
After the night - I pulled A times back...

WU 7.55
1st A time = 3.10 and 1st nap = 1hr 35
2nd A time = 3.10 and 2nd nap = 1hr 10
Bed 19:35 = A time of 2.45.
Slept ok for 3 hrs after bedtime - then awful night again as per Tues.

Yesterday's routine was:

WU 7:40
1st A time =  2.55  and 1st nap = 1 hr 25
2nd A time = 3.05 (was aiming for 2.55 but took longer to settle). And Nap = 1hr 25.
18:45 ish - put down for bed - 18:55 I think by time asleep. A= 2hrs 25.

Woke at 19.30 upset and seemed hungry. Did BF and he had a good feed (perhaps hadn't had much before bed?!).
Unsettled until 21:15. (trying to sleep / doozing but for just a few mins at a time)
Sleep at 21.15 until 22:45. Fed him then - even though I probably shouldn't have done!
Slept 23:15 until 1am.
Unsettled until 3am but calmer than previous nights. Sssh pat in bed - no need to pick up. Doozing but not dropping into deep sleep.
Fed around 2ish. And then swaddled arms in a desperate attempt!
Slept 3ish till 4.30am. At 4.30 am just needed hand on him for a few mins - then back to sleep.
Woke 6ish - hand on him / back to sleep quite easily.
WU for day 7.55 .

So far today....

WU: 7.55
1st A time = 2.50 He seemed really tired - lots of yawning and fussing. 1st Nap - 1.05. OT / UT?! I'm guessing OT by the state of him!
2nd A time = 3hrs.  Was aiming for A of 2.50 again but took ages to go to sleep - should probably have tried even earlier. Stirred at 15:20 - hard to re-settle. Stirred at 16:00 - resettled (Unusual for him to properly stir during nap).
WU: 16:10 S = 1 hr 20 but disturbed.
Bed - In bed 6.50. Sleep 7.05. (A = 2hr 40). Lots of fussing and he needed help.

Lets see what the night brings....