Author Topic: 14 week old night wake ups  (Read 2604 times)

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Offline 1sttimemamma

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14 week old night wake ups
« on: February 22, 2014, 06:57:43 am »
Hi - I'm just curious if it's normal to have a baby cry out several times a night and then put themselves to sleep. We just transitioned DS from the swing to the crib, but even before tonight, he would wake and cry and then go back to sleep. Tonight it was 3 hours after he fell asleep and it will probably happen a couple more times. 

Is it a sign of over tiredness? Or just because babies do weird things?

Offline Layla

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Re: 14 week old night wake ups
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2014, 09:27:33 am »
Hello ;D

Some babies will cry out in between sleep cycles so I would like to think its normal...but it could also be a sign of over tiredness, especially if he cries out in the first part of the night (like 1-2hrs after being put to bed). Does he need your help to get back to sleep? How is he during the day? How are his naps? Did you want to post your EAS for us to look at?

 :)



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Offline 1sttimemamma

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Re: 14 week old night wake ups
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2014, 10:23:36 am »
Hi! This is his first night in the crib. Always the swing before tonight.
So far, this is what's happened: Sleep at 6:45pm (after about 20 min of shh/pat and 2 pu/pd
Woke at 7:20pm - needed shh/pat
Cried at 10:20pm - didn't need me
cried at 12:30am - didn't need me
cried at 1:40am - did shh/pat and 3 pu/pd and back to sleep at 2:05am (That was a hard one)

I generally feed him around 4am - so I am waiting for him to get a big closer to that?? Although I don't know how this works yet for him.

Our EAS today was
E - 3am
Wake - 7:40am (he woke at 6:30am and I left him alone and he fell back asleep around 7am)
E 7:45 and 8:20 (had to take brother to school)
Nap - 9:25am to 10:30am - cry - back to sleep until 10:50am
E 11am
Nap 12:20 to 1:16pm - cry - back to sleep until 1:45pm
E 2pm
E 4pm  ------ we had to all go to a store and I thought he'd nap in the Ergo, but he didn't
N 4:30 to 5:15pm
E - 5:20 and several more times during bedtime
BT 6:45pm

Offline 1sttimemamma

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Re: 14 week old night wake ups
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2014, 15:19:36 pm »
After the 1:40am wake up, he woke at 3:20am and I fed him. Then he cried around 5:30 but I didn't go in his room. He woke a little before 7am for the day.
Are all these cries normal?

Offline Sarah - Enfys' Mum

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Re: 14 week old night wake ups
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2014, 16:05:26 pm »
For his first night in the crib, that looks pretty good!





Offline Layla

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Re: 14 week old night wake ups
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2014, 22:19:22 pm »
I agree  ;D! If it were me, I would have fed him at the 1:40am wake up.... are you holding off until 4am for any particular reason? My rule of thumb for night feeds were to follow the daytime routine, for example, if mine was feeding every 4hrs during the day and if she was up anywhere from 4hrs onward at night, I would have fed...and perhaps this is why it was harder to settle at this wake up... he may have been genuinely hungry :-\.

Anyway, when you say he cries, it is a full blown cry and for a long time or is it a brief cry/call out and he then puts himself back to sleep? Again, I think its normal for them to make noises/some cry between sleep cycles.





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Offline 1sttimemamma

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Re: 14 week old night wake ups
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2014, 22:39:06 pm »
He has been able to go till around 4am until he needs to eat, so that's why I held off at the 1:40am wake up. I debated on it, but once I started I felt I should stick with it. Should I base my feeding times on what has been the norm?

His cries are brief cry out - at one point I started to get out of bed and go in his room, but he stopped.

Which leads me to another question - how much crying do you listen to before you help? The type of cry is important, but just curious if I should be giving him a little time to settle on his own. It seems I make things a little harder for him when I help.

Offline Layla

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Re: 14 week old night wake ups
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2014, 23:02:04 pm »
I used to always wait and listen and if it was a mantra cry, I wouldn't intervene because I would also make things harder ;). I always waited a little (like a couple of minutes) and if the cry would escalate to "I need you" cry, I would go and shh/pat or feed if it was time to.

With regards to feeding, even though he's been able to sleep before till 4am, I wouldn't take that as gospel that he'll be able to do it from here on.. especially if he had done it when he was younger and bedtime was later perhaps? I don't know... the daytime/night time feeds (applying the same hour rule at night) worked well for me and actually dd3 was able to do 12hr stretches from 4months on but just because she did it one night, didn't mean she wouldn't wake the next and I always fed if she was up from 4hrs onward. Sometime around 6 months she started to drop the 1st feed (the 11ish pm feed) on her own (again, if she would wake for that feed, I would feed but she started waking for it less and less) and then she started to drop the early morning feed on her own around 8 months until at 9 months or so she slept through all night.

Also there is a big GS around the 4month mark where he may want more feeds at night and often this is around the time when babies start to make the transition to 4hr EASY... although we weren't quiet able to make it to 4hrs between feeds because mine was BF but we did get to 3.5hrs :)
 
Sounds like he's doing really well hun... well done!!!  ;D ;D ;D



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Offline 1sttimemamma

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Re: 14 week old night wake ups
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2014, 23:49:03 pm »
Thanks! I'm pretty excited that we are doing somewhat ok in the crib.
I just fear that I'm going to lead to habits of night waking for food, so that's why I think about holding off. so if he goes to sleep at 7pm, if he woke at 11pm, I would feed if he woke and was crying? I guess that if he wakes and cries like he did at the 1:30am time and needs help, it would be safe to assume he needs food??
I'm still confused on the process on how I settle him. I read in the freq asked questions page about the advice Tracy gave to somebody with a 3 month old and they did PU/PD from the start - not shh/pat. It was written to pu and then pd right away. I guess I've been trying shh/pat and unless he gets hysterical, I don't pick him up. However, it seemed to get him calmer last night when I did have to pick him up. I just worry I'm waiting too long and making him cry too long in his crib as I'm trying shh/pat.

Offline 1sttimemamma

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Re: 14 week old night wake ups
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2014, 11:07:37 am »
It's been an awful night. He didn't take his last nap - refused and cried. So that means he was awake since 3:10pm. I put him in bed at around 6:15pm and he pretty much passed out until 6:45pm. Then he fussed off and on and cried out but would go back to sleep until my husband finally went into his room around 7:30ish ( because he was screaming) and then he fell asleep (after sh/pat and pu/pd)
then he woke at 9:45pm - at which time I fed him. The reason I fed him was because he refused to eat at bedtime - just got upset when I tried. So the last time he had a normal feeding was around 5:15pm.
He slept from that feeding until 12:20am. At which point I would go in his room and shh/pat and maybe pu/pd two times. Then he'd fall asleep, only to wake up 5 to 10 min later and cry again. The crying escalated and nothing would settle him. Shh/pat was doing nothing. I would pu/pd and he'd get calmer and I'd lay him down and he'd scream, so I would pick him up again and start over. Sometimes he'd fall asleep for 5 minutes, but then wake back up screaming. This lasted until 2:10am or so. I gave him gripe water, because I started to feel like he was uncomfortable. And once during the pick up he farted a few times, but he didn't get calm after the farts. So, I gave him gripe water and he eventually passed out in his crib. I sat in his room for maybe 10 min and he was asleep - I went back to bed, and he woke again. Since this was around 2:15am or so, I fed him again.

The thing that I probably messed up on was his swaddle situation. Last night and his last nap today, he was kicking his feet so hard, he kicked them out of the swaddle. He uses one of those velcro ones, so his feet weren't in that little pouch at the bottom. He would also get sweaty because I double swaddle him. So I decided to use a sleeping bag thing and also this arm swaddle thing that we use off and on - but haven't used it for weeks. After his 2:15am feeding, I reswaddled him in the original swaddle and he just went to bed wide awake and I can hear him occasionally  , but he's not screaming.

My other thought is that his belly was uncomfortable. I did have tomato sauce last night and I ate the left overs two times today. I've always wondered if tomato sauce hurts his belly and I'm thinking it does.

I can't understand why he would fall asleep and then wake back u;p after 5 minutes.

Also, how precise and consistent do you need to be with the shh/pat and pu/pd? I would sometimes hold him longer in the pu stage, but never longer than 2 minutes or so.

I'm so discouraged and really thought about putting him back in the swing - but I didn't and I really don't want to.

Any thoughts?

Offline Layla

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Re: 14 week old night wake ups
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2014, 20:42:27 pm »
big hugs hun...i just need to get the girls ready for school and drop them off and will come back in about an hour and a bit with some thoughts  :-*



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Offline Layla

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Re: 14 week old night wake ups
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2014, 22:59:32 pm »
He would have been overtired by bedtime because of that last nap he missed and when they get overtired, they can have a rough time transitioning between sleep cycles, they tend to wake up more and take a long time to settle. So I think that might have been the case as 3 hrs for a 14wo is quiet a long time to be awake for. You're right in that some foods can cause them discomfort so maybe try and stay away from the foods you "think" might be causing him discomfort.

With regards to the last nap/catnap, what were the other 2 naps like? I remember there was a time when I had to limit dd's 1st and 2nd nap to just 1.5hrs so that there was enough "drive" for her to take the catnap. Oh and don't be afraid to AP the catnap... this nap will be the first to disappear and most mums (myself included) do this nap in the stroller/baby carrier/arms/swing... I did the last nap mostly in the baby carrier/sling just to give her and I a little break from the shh/patting and to be able to get things done! If he does happen to miss this nap again, I would be tempted to put him to bed even earlier, maybe even 5.30pm (I've done bedtime as early as 5pm!) to avoid him from getting too overtired by bedtime.

With regards to shh/pat vs pu/pd. I did mostly shh/pat (and still do if need be) as pu/pd would get mine more wired up. If she was really really upset, I would do a quick pu to calm her and then put down. Do you feel like he would sleep better without a swaddle? We didn't swaddle dd as she liked her freedom too much and around 3 months, she started to have better control of her hands. I did and still do have her in a gro bag. When I did shh/pat, you can modify it to what you think suits your baby - for example, some babies don't like the patting, some babies don't like the shushing... I kept mine on her back and patted her thigh and shushed. With all that shh/patting, she eventually found her thumb and learned to self soothe. For naps, I had a pretty strict wind down routine - change nappy/put white noise on and sway to one of the songs on the machine whilst rubbing her back in circular motion, then start patting her bottom and shushing and then in the cot. I would then leave and see what she would do... if she started crying and it was a mantra cry, I would leave her. If she would cry and need me, I would go back and start shh/pat. Some start shh/pat as soon as they place the baby in the cot. I used to give it 20mins of shh/patting (for naps only) and if she wasn't asleep by then, I used to get her out and give her a little more A and as soon as we'd get tired signs, I would try again. If E was due, I would do E and then try again for a nap. If she was getting really upset, I would pick her up, a cuddle or walk around and rub her back and shushhhh and then back in the cot.

It's important to remember that you're still in the early days of sleep training, if he used to be in the swing for all naps and at night and there is expected to be some regression too. Try to stay away from going back old habits (except for that catnap I mentioned before ;)) and with time (it took us about 2 weeks) he will learn to self soothe.

Night feeds - yes, if mine had her last feed at 7 and then woke at 11, I would have fed. For me, sleeping through meant anything more than 4hrs and usually babies start to do 4-6hr stretch in the first part of the night and then they wake sometime towards the morning and then go back to sleep for another hour or 2 before they wake for the day.



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Offline 1sttimemamma

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Re: 14 week old night wake ups
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2014, 00:56:08 am »
Thank you Layla! So nice of you to respond, I really appreciate it. His naps yesterday were longer than todays - he took an 1 1/2 nap in the morning. Then he took a nap of 1 hour and 10 min and then a 40 min nap (awake at 3:10pm). Today were terrible - a 45 min nap, a 30 min nap, a 50 min nap and a 30 min nap. The last one he woke at 4:10pm.
So tonight I'm going for a 6pm bedtime.

Yes, he may like not having the swaddle on, but I'm afraid to try it because his hands are still kind of flailing around. He does love sucking on his hands though. Do I just try it? I didn't want to put him in the crib and then add no swaddle to the mix.

So, that big two hour fuss/crying fest last night started less than 3 hours after I last fed him. I guess I could have fed him again, but I really don't want to get into a habit. We have had only one feed for so long.

He naps fine during the day (as far as not needing shh/pat) - we don't need to help him at all, just looks around and goes to sleep. The nighttime is the hardest. I'm not looking forward to tonight. My older son woke up during everything last night and nobody has really slept.

Offline Layla

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Re: 14 week old night wake ups
« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2014, 01:19:51 am »
have you heard of the aussie swaddle? here's a link ...you might like to try it so that he still has access to his fingers/hands :) Swaddling Technique (aka "Aussie swaddle")

Edit to add - probably not a good idea to get rid of it altogether... like you said, you don't want to make too many changes at once but you could try swaddling with one arm out or the aussie swaddle.

I have my fingers crossed for you for a good night. Make sure you go to bed nice and early (if possible) too  ;D :-*
« Last Edit: February 24, 2014, 02:03:07 am by Layla »



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Offline 1sttimemamma

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Re: 14 week old night wake ups
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2014, 02:19:29 am »
Well I put him to bed at 5:55pm - he was pretty tired and had a good feeding. He's up at 6:15pm crying, so I'm totally lost on what is going on.