When they're awake for ages but not unhappy?

[KookyK]

I could write lots of other threads about my DS's sleep issues (short naps, NWS and EWs) and I'm doing what I can from BW for those. One thing that flummoxes me is when he's wide awake and buckarooing in his cot for perhaps an hour at a time. Esp when its 4 am as he tends to get up around 5/5.30 for the day so this is problematic. He's not upset but v v awake. I don't pick him up I play white noise which can work (rarely at 4am tho). He's swaddled and I wonder if he's trying to breakout and its keeping him busy and awake?!

He's 6.5 months old.

What do you do when they're awake for ages but not unhappy but you know they need to sleep?

[*Ali*]

Can you post his routine in EAS format? E.g.
E 7.00
Solids 8.00
A 2.5hrs
S 9.30 (2hrs) etc.

My first thought is that he is UT from too much day sleep but it is difficult to say without knowing what his day looks like. It could be the complete opposite and he is restless due to OT.

Tracy advised if he is awake and happy you don't need to do anything at the NW. Don't go in, don't put on white noise. Just leave him to it and he will hopefully go back to sleep eventually. Only go to him if he gets upset and starts crying for  you.

You could try leaving one arm out the swaddle if you think he is ready.

[KookyK]

Days are always pretty pants. That's a whole other problem! He's always woken around 4 and again at 5-5.30 and now starts the day then.

His EASY is sort of like this

A 5.30
S 8.30 usually on school run in carseat so unforch usually wakes when we get in at 9-9.15
S 11 or 11.30 I try to extend this in the cot so sometimes its til 1, sometimes 12.30
S usually falls asleep at some point on school run 2.30 or 3. In carseat.often wakes hen we get home around 3.20-3.40.
Bed 6.30 usually wakes crying after 40 mins resettled with white noise and hand in shoulder.
Night wakings/feeds had been 2 of them. Past week waking 2 hourly but I'm holding out and only picking up and feeding twice (10 and 2).

I had been letting him fall asleep in my arms but have sorted that. He has a dummy. Would like to wean as worry about it being a prop. White noise might be a prop I don't know. He's next to me in cot.

[*Ali*]

So I'd have to say OT since he has quite a long day and doesn't get 2 long naps in and most of his A times are on the long side even after a short nap in the afternoon.

Would you consider doing an earlier BT around 6 or even 5.30pm?

Have you tried resettling him when he wakes from the first nap on the school run rather than keeping him up another couple of hours? He is probably OT from that wake up onwards. Or any chance of keeping him awake on the school run and putting him down in the cot when you get home? If you could get him on 2 long naps you could do away with the third nap and make his day shorter thus giving him less total A time. Also have a look at the 3-2 nap transition sticky which has more info on dropping the third nap. All about the 3-2 transition- 5/6 months

You could definitely try weaning the dummy if you think he has become dependent on that. Does he have a blankie/lovey he could hold and suck if he wanted to? How do you feel about weaning the swaddle? I wouldn't worry about the white noise as you can just leave that playing for the whole nap. Do you? White noise really helped my Ds2 and he didn't even notice when I weaned it cold turkey when he moved into his brother's room at 15mo.

The other option is wake to sleep about 3am.

What do you think?

[KookyK]

I do leave white noise on the whole nap but its having to play it at times in the night I like less as I don't like hearing it and he sleeps in my room!

I'd Love to keep him awake til after the school run it'd be the ideal solution but he's so miserable and tired I can't at the moment but it cd happen If his awake times extend or be starts to get up later. I have tried to extend him in the carseat but perhaps I shd transfer him to bed and see if I can resettle him .

I'm nervous to put him to bed earlier in case he's up earlier but I shd give it a try. That's something I could defo do .

He has a lovey but he's not too interested but it cd be handy when he's out of ye swaddle. He napped usual
Short naps with 1 arm out it today and thrashed a bit but not too bad so ill keep doing this at naps then try nights.

Thanks so much for your thoughts!

[*Ali*]

Do you just get him up at 5/5.30am or do you spend time trying to resettle him? Is he hungry then? Would he feed and go back to sleep with a bit of persistence do you think?

[KookyK]

On another thread someone suggested I always make a big thing of 'morning' and pick my time as to when I do that. So lights don't go on til 6am. I try to resettle him before that and due to his need on school days to sleep longer I even use AP to get him back to sleep (jiggling , rocking, feeding etc). If he does fall asleep (rare) sometimes I pop him in bed next to me to keep him asleep. He isn't really that hungry at this time prob cos of two night feeds.

Last night was a bit better. He actually had a 4th short nap as we were due to go to a restaurant with him at 6pm however when I woke him from the 4.45-5,30 nap he was so cranky we stayed in and had takeaway! He went to sleep at 7.30 due to extra nap. Usual feeds 11 and 3. I'm not sure he woke in between. He woke at 5 but I resettled him with cuddles and white noise (offered feed but didn't want) and dummy.

[*Ali*]

Ok yes I was going to suggest keeping it dark and quiet and trying to resettle until your chosen time to start the day but seems like you are already doing that.

Is his room dal or could the sun be waking him?

It's stich a lain you can't keep him up for the school run as the only thing that seemed to help my ds2 with early rising was pushing that first nap really late and skidding his other naps and bt later.

[KookyK]

Yes it's nice and dark he's in my room. We are wondering if I'm
Disturbing him eg he sometimes wakes when I turn over.

Today he had a good day but has struggled to get to sleep at bedtime wondering if UT as he's used to a short night time and short naps. Not sure what this will do to the night.

Today
A 6am
S 8.40-10.15 (resettled half way)
S 12.20-1 (this was not intended he was in car on way to a party for DD)
S 2.45-4 (partly in carseat then transferred and resettled - thinking of trying transferring him post school run as usually either went for a drive or tried to rock him in carseat unsuccessfully)
Bed 7 but only went to sleep 7.45

One arm out of swaddle not going too badly. This is good as he is doing well going off to sleep from awake but needs his dummy replugging q a bit so I'd prefer him to get his hands back to help self soothe

[*Ali*]

Did you have a look at the 3-2 nap transition sticky I posted above? I definitely think he only needs 2 long naps. You are probably right he was likely UT from the total nap sleep.

[KookyK]

Thanks Ali youve been so full of good advice! Have briefly
Looked at the 3-2 nap info but as his naps are usually so short I hadn't committed it to memory. Off to reread!

[KookyK]

The trouble with the 2 naps a day schedule is at least one clashes with the school run (45 mins in car). Not so bad if he starts the nap in the carseat and I try to transfer ( worked yday) but if he's asleep at say 1.30 and I have to go out to pick DD at 2.30 its tricky. Wonder what others do.

Last night was terrible. Loads of NWs and awake for the day around 5.15. He did 2 poos between 5.15-6am so no chance of resettling him. He's eating loads (BLW) as he's just been let loose on food! Am sooo tired today

[*Ali*]

Have you tried music, toys or snacks on that first school run to keep him awake? It would be so much easier if you could get that first nap pushed back to 9.15-10.11.15am and then that second nap could start on the school run in the afternoon.

Otherwise yes you might needs to stick with 3 naps a bit longer and make do for now. You could try to get one long nap in the middle of the day and two CNs on the school runs. So naps would be something like 8.30-9am, 11-12.30 and the 2.30-3pm (or whatever he does in that last school run. You might need to wake him up when you get in to avoid getting too much day sleep. If he sleeps longer for that second nap you might need to put him down for a CN when you get home if he hasn't slept on the last school run.

[KookyK]

Yes I'll experiment with those times. DD used to do more like that second option when small.

[KookyK]

Defo going to bed early is better for him. He went to bed 6.15 yday and fell asleep 6.30 and had a more usual night (not great but better than recently) - bit unsettled in 1st hour, woke 9.30, 1.30 and 5 resettled to 5.50. He wanted milk at 9.30 but had v little at 1.30. Quite wakeful around 1.30 but eventually got the message.

I tbink the long nap in middle of the day would work better for us as I think about it. I will aim at that!