Author Topic: Could teeth be causing these night wakings?  (Read 1126 times)

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Offline ThomasTheTank

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Could teeth be causing these night wakings?
« on: February 20, 2014, 09:40:54 am »
He'll be 9 months in a few days. Starting at 4 months, he was a solid 12 hr sleeper, with the occasional blip. But for the past month, we've been having issues. He'll do the occasional 11 hours solid, but most nights, wakes 1-3 times. I think it's teething because if I don't give him medicine before bed, he'll wake up at the 40 minute mark and cry, but if I do give him medicine, I'll see him wake but go back to sleep without making a noise. But he'll oftentimes wake again at some or all of these points, seeming to depend on when he gets a dose of medicine: 10:30, 12:30, 2:30 and/or 4:30. We leave him for a minute to try to go back to sleep and sometimes he will, but mostly not. When we do go in, depending on the time I may give him another dose of meds then put my hand on him. 95% of the time he's back asleep within 3 minutes. But surely teething shouldn't be going on for this long!?! I can see where the teeth are in the gum, but can't see them coming through yet. I'm worried that because I think he's in pain, I'm coddling him too much which is causing a vicious cycle of wake-ups, if that makes sense. He used to be brilliant at going to sleep independently, but about 50% of the time now I sit with him (hand on his back). I started doing this because I would leave him like I always have once he was drowsy, and he would suck his thumb like he always has, but then I would think he was almost asleep and he would cry out.. sort of like he was trying so hard to get to sleep but frustrated because something was keeping him awake.. at least that's what I told myself was happening. Whereas if I'm in the room, he seems reassured to relax enough to go to sleep. I think maybe it's uncomfortable for him to suck on his thumb. And like I say, within just a minute or so of me putting my hand on him at night, he's back out. Could he be in pain and just need the reassurance that someone is there for him? Or is he waking between sleep cycles and needing someone in the room to get back to sleep? Ugh...!

Before I put down our routine, a bit of background on our naps/night sleep history: he used to do terrible naps (I was on here ALL the time working on that) but around 7 months they got much better. At that point, I was waiting until I saw tired signs to put him down which resulted in roughly 3 1/2 hour to 4 hour wake times and 1 1/2 hour to 2 hour naps. So then our days started getting longer and he was cutting his night sleep to 11 hours, then to 10.5 hours, then to 10 hours. So I started putting him down for his first nap at 3hours wake time. That resulted in a 1 hour first nap. Then for second awake time I did 3hours 15min or 3hours 30 min, resulting in second nap of 1 1/2 - 2 hours. However, if he isn't awake by 3pm or 3:15pm he struggles to get to sleep at 7pm, so I sometimes have to wake him, which I hate doing on the second nap. So I've been toying with cutting his first nap to 40min, so that I can put him down a little earlier for second nap and allow him to sleep longer.

I'd say that bad nap day or good nap day doesn't seem to have an effect on his nights. But I do worry about him waking at the 40min mark which always meant overtired for us... Even when he doesn't make a peep, I'll see him on the monitor come awake for a couple minutes before he falls back asleep. Whereas in the past, he would just roll over or open his eyes for a millisecond before going back to sleep. Is that just him maturing or could he be overtired? He doesn't show any tired signs at bedtime until maybe 15 minutes before he's asleep.

Mood wise, he's always happy. Even in the late afternoon, he'll happily play by himself and smile at everybody. He wakes in the morning clapping his hands.

Ok, so our routine:

6am wakeup
9am nap for 1 hour but experimenting cutting to 40min, he rarely needs resettling during this nap
Awake time around 3 1/2 hours
1:30 nap for 1 1/2 hours, I wake him at 3pm or 3:15 if he hasn't had a solid sleep, he sometimes needs a resettle at 30 min mark
3pm awake
7pm bedtime

I can put in his E routine if it's helpful. So total he gets 13 1/2 to 14 hours sleep. Regardless of how he slits naps/nights that seems to be his number lately. And he's always gotten a bit less sleep than the average baby, no matter how hard I fought against it!

Apologies for the long post. I'm frustrated and missing my long nights!

Thanks in advance!

« Last Edit: February 20, 2014, 18:19:40 pm by Skadiver13 »

Offline Layla

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Re: Could teeth be causing these night wakings?
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2014, 09:41:33 am »
Routine wise, at 9 months we were (and still are) doing 40-45min catnap in the morning and 1.5-2hr nap in the afternoon. This routine will be the way to go with the 2-1 nap transition, which some babies start as early as 10months. So I would experiment and if you need to pull back on the pm nap (make it earlier) so that it doesn't interfere with bedtime, I would also suggest shortening the morning nap to 45mins. Our 2nd A before afternoon nap is 3.5hrs (used to be 3) so I would probably do 3hrs to start with.

With regards to being in pain/teething... personally I am not a big fan of using meds all the time, I am a bit paranoid of things like side effects, etc..of long term use and I am saving the pain relief meds for molars and canines, which can be quiet painful! But that aside, if you see that he's in pain and its helping, you could continue to use them.. I would just be careful using them too long and too many days in a row. So maybe he's now used to you attending to him at these night wakings and can't get back to sleep without you putting your hand on him. If you leave him, is it just a mantra cry or a proper "I need you" cry?



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Offline ThomasTheTank

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Re: Could teeth be causing these night wakings?
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2014, 10:28:38 am »
Thanks Layla. So helpful, as always.

I'll go forward with pulling back his morning nap to 40min with a second A time of 3 hours. Based on some days in the past of short morning naps, I think 3 hours will be just right.

We had an awful nap day yesterday which was so frustrating but resulted in 12 hours sleep last night instead of 11! He whinged at 4:30 but we let him be and he went back to sleep. I think we have been rushing in at night... I'll do better about this and make sure he's 'i need you' crying before I go in. He woke up again at 5:45 but talked to himself for a bit before going back to sleep, which is not unusual.

I am positive we'll be moving towards one nap on the earlier side of the range.. Like I say, he's just a 13 1/2 to 14hour max sleeper nowadays. Yesterday is a great example -- he slept total less than 2 hours all day so then slept 12 hours last night, but on days where he sleeps 2 1/2 hours during the day, he's doing 11hours at night.

You make an interesting point about overmedicating and I can't decide where I stand on this. The funny thing is, a few months ago I was on here asking about this exact thing and another moderator said to always give the meds if I think he's in pain.. I guess it's a decision we all must make. I asked my doctor about it today and she said do one dose, but don't give another dose in the middle of the night. hmm..

So hopefully we get more nights like last night -- one whinge without us having to interfere. I'll keep you updated as we go on.

Thanks!



Offline Layla

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Re: Could teeth be causing these night wakings?
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2014, 21:44:08 pm »
I suppose the teething/pain relief thing is a personal choice and people will have different opinions on it and at the end of the day we (mods) are just everyday mums who are offering help based on what has worked for us. A lot depends on the baby too.... some babies will teeth without feeling any discomfort (tooth will literally cut through overnight) and others show strong signs of it (hand in mouth all the time, unsettled, won't eat, etc...).

Try not to go to him too soon and maybe he did have a more solid night/able to resettle because he slept less during the day.... still, I wouldn't cut both naps short as at least one needs to be restorative (1.5hrs) but it may be a case of adjusting the schedule so that there is just enough sleep during the day and not too much for him to have that drive to sleep more at night :)

Keep us updated :-*



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Offline ThomasTheTank

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Re: Could teeth be causing these night wakings?
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2014, 15:27:30 pm »
Thanks Layla. It's very interesting, we've had 3 good nights which followed bad nap days.. The day before yesterday he slept only 30min first nap and an hour second nap, went to sleep easily a bit before 7pm and slept 12 solid hours with no wakings. The next day we woke him after 45 min first nap but he only took a 40min undertired second nap (after 3hr 15 wake time). He was overtired at bedtime but slept 11 1/2 solid hours with no wakings. Today we woke him after 45min first nap and he did a 3 1/2 hr wake time and I'm about to wake him from his second nap -- it's been 1hr 45min. So I'm really curious to see how tonight goes. I assumed the nightwakings were teeth, but could it be that he was getting too much day sleep and just wasn't tired enough to sleep 'hard'? Perhaps his night sleep perfect number is 12hours, but only needing 13 1/2 hours of sleep total, it's hard to find the right balance of day sleep to be restorative. What do you think?

Thanks!

Offline Layla

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Re: Could teeth be causing these night wakings?
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2014, 07:47:03 am »
i agree that too much daytime sleep can cause night wakings but as i mentioned before, I wouldn't deliberately cut both. I let dd have up to 2 and sometimes even more than that in the afternoon and accept a less than 11hrs night. She's also in the transition period so its unrealistic of me to expect her to do 12 hrs unless i cut both naps short. Let me know how your night went :)
« Last Edit: February 24, 2014, 07:48:44 am by Layla »



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Offline ThomasTheTank

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Re: Could teeth be causing these night wakings?
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2014, 21:07:52 pm »
Thanks Layla. Ended up being a mistake to wake him at 1hr45min as he was pretty fussy that afternoon. The night was ok.. one waking at 10:30 that he needed us to get back to sleep and another at 4:30 but he fussed for a minute and back to sleep, 11hours total night. Today was very different again!!... only slept 20min first nap (very undertired I'm afraid) and then 2hours second nap. He went down easy at 7pm, so curious (again) to see how tonight goes as the nap distributions were so much different.

I'm going to chalk all this craziness up to the start of the transition maybe in combo with teeth...

Offline Layla

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Re: Could teeth be causing these night wakings?
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2014, 22:40:22 pm »
Fingers crossed for a good night!



20/06/2012 - my angel baby