Awake 2 hours in the nights

[gb18]

My lo has always been rubbish at naps but these have really improved recently with help from this forum.
My main problem now is long awake periods in the night. My lo has recently sttn a few times, yay!!! I therefore decided to drop night feed as a step towards stopping breast feeding (lo refuses bottles). At times now when lo wakes he takes hours to settle. Shh/pat no longer works until he has been awake well over an hour and often he is happy but seems to want to play. My dh manages to settle him in his arms yesterday and then put him in cot after 1 1/2 hrs awake.

My son has sttn when day sleep has been low and also higher so just can't figure what is happening.
He can self settle at night and for naps (mantra cries at times), never had a dummy, has a lovey although does not seem to use it. I have not fed in the night for one week. I also dropped a day feed to try and increase interest in solids (and lo did not seem to want much milk). Lo sttn or at least till 5.30 four times since this so did not seem to affect sleep.

What I would like to know is possible reasons for nw and how to manage. Also if lo sleeps in after nw eg till 8 shall I let him?

Easy today is
Wu 7.45and bf
E solids 9.30
S10.30 wu 12
Offer milk in cup and snack
E 1.30 solids
Bf 2.30
S 3.20 wu 4
I will put to bed at 7.
I have never been able to get 2 long naps and resettling is never successful in the day

Historically he was having a short am nap and longer pm nap (2hr ish) from about 61/2 months ( now nearly 8 months) but last week been doing longer am nap ( prob due to nw).

Any ideas on what to do?

[Shiv52]

Long NWs tend to be UT.

Average A times- BOOKMARK ME!

At 8 months alot of babies are doing 3 hours A time so I think that first short A time is throwing off your day. He may well need 3.15 A time. Also the fact you are doing an 11.15 hour day is probably contributing the UT issue. 
So I'd start pushing out that First A time and see can you get a better nap as that will give you a better day overall and a longer day and should help your nights

I'd be very wary of cutting milk feeds. Milk, be it BM or formula, has many more calories per oz than any solid you'd be offering at 8 months. And if you cut feeds you will likely find he'll wake in the night to make up for those lost calories.  My DD2 did this at this age and nights ended up a disaster. I had to literally cut solids back completely to get her milk intake up again to stop the night nonsense. How many feeds is your LO getting in a day?

[gb18]

Hi. Thanks so much for your reply.

I normally work on a 12 hour day but the nw are throwing everything out as he then sleeps till 8 often rather than 7. Should I wake at 7 even if lo wants to sleep in?

The easy that I aim for is a 3 hour a time, this normally gives 40 min sleep in the morning but then I get a 2 hr pm nap often which normally fits in well with our day. Do u think this is detrimental? I have in the past got a long morning nap but then even with 3hr 30 pm A got a 40 min nap. This makes it hard to get everything to fit in the day if I were to extend A further.

My lo has 3 breast feeds a day. I offer mid morning milk in a cup with a snack but milk often refused as lo not keen to drink milk unless bf. if it was hunger waking lo would he not wake again quickly? Once he has settled he will sometimes sleep for a further 2 1/2 hrs or more. Do u think I need to feed more? I have been feeling very tied due to bf and have been trying to wean gradually as really need lo to move off bf. Lo has sttn since on 3 feeds. Could the problem accumulate over time?

I have considered that my son may be LSN but unsure how to figure this out!! In the past he has sttn when had total day sleeps of 2 hrs, 2hrs 40 and also less than 2 hours. Just can't seem to figure him out!!!
Is there signs of LSN? My lo is always happy even when slept poorly.

Thanks, I look forward to your comments

[Shiv52]

The easy that I aim for is a 3 hour a time, this normally gives 40 min sleep in the morning but then I get a 2 hr pm nap often which normally fits in well with our day. Do u think this is detrimental? I have in the past got a long morning nap but then even with 3hr 30 pm A got a 40 min nap. This makes it hard to get everything to fit in the day if I were to extend A further.

Yes it does get difficult at this age. Mine both tended to do 13 hour days and 11 hour nights at this age to fit everything in and that's when you start to cut one nap down a bit but as you already are doing one short nap and one longer nap it's not the biggest issue. I would aim for a 12 hour day so you can let him sleep to 8 but then know bedtime will likely be 8ish as opposed to 7. And if you prefer the earlier BT it might be better to wake him so you get a consistent start to your day. It could be though he is going to need the longer A times to be ready to sleep better at night YK?

My lo has 3 breast feeds a day. I offer mid morning milk in a cup with a snack but milk often refused as lo not keen to drink milk unless bf. if it was hunger waking lo would he not wake again quickly? Once he has settled he will sometimes sleep for a further 2 1/2 hrs or more. Do u think I need to feed more? I have been feeling very tied due to bf and have been trying to wean gradually as really need lo to move off bf. Lo has sttn since on 3 feeds. Could the problem accumulate over time?

The WHO recommend 4 feeds a day until 1yo.  8 months is a bit young to be down to 3 feeds every day. I think around 10 months with DD1 I cut a feed in the day and it worked out fine. I totally get being tied to BFing though and it was around this age I did start to step back a bit and an odd missed feed isn't a big feed. So I'd feed at dinner time and then head out with the girls for cinema and a coffee and DH just put LO to bed after weetabix at bedtime or something like that. I do remember feeling so much better when I didn't have  to be there for all the feeds. Hugs xx

[gb18]

Hi. I am pleased to report some success!! Managed when in the house on a couple of occasions to get 2 1.5 hr naps and working on a rough 12 hr day. This has resulted in much better nights and even though yesterday was horrendous in the pm (20 min nap) he only woke once and was easily settled.

Today he again slept well in the morning with 3 hr A but promptly had NO pm nap as in buggy! Trying to quickly feed him and get to bed ASAP.

How did u manage getting out and about with naps? Any ideas on how to encourage sleep in his buggy? He is just so nosey he won't sleep. I really need to get out and about as I have no family support and can't stay in the house everyday. Today has made me so upset though but just can't face staying in everyday!! Think it feels worse as I am dreading tonight!!!

[Shiv52]

Hugs. Hope the night was ok.

For naps I tried to get out as soon as my LO was up for their nap and it gave me a good 3/4 hours before I needed to be back for the next nap. If it got near nap and I was still out I put a blanket over the buggy to block out the light and they tended to go to sleep. It did take practice though but They both got there. Try not to best yourself  up. When my Dd1 was 4/5 months we started a signing class and it was slap bang in the middle of nap 1 so it was always short and then she was OT and the rest of the day was messed up but we just had a quiet day at home the next day to catch up and that helped. 

Am so pleased about your naps. That's fab!!

[Sarah - Enfys' Mum]

I have one of these and it's great.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/SnoozeShade-Blackout-Blind-Prams-Pushchairs/dp/B0039NQ3TW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1393932688&sr=8-1&keywords=snoozeshade

[gb18]

Thanks, I think I will definitely look at getting the snoozeshade. I know I should not care what people think but do people think it is wierd that u use it?

Lo has slept thro till 6.30 the last couple of days which is great!! Even managed it on Wednesday when he only had half hour nap in the morning!!

Just wanted to ask about having a shorter morning nap and longer pm nap. Would that not be suitable at this age? Just that sometimes this is what he does even at 3 hr A. Also he is going to nursery soon and I think they all nap after lunch so that would be a better time for a longer nap.

Also last couple of days he has cried a lot at morning nap. He normal whinges/ mantra cries but last 2 days cried for 15 mins or more. More than a mantra cry. I don't like to leave him but he is not screaming and I know from experience if I go in he will not sleep for ages!!
Do u think I might be better fixing nap times? I just wonder if this would help fix a routine for him and help him settle and also anticipate sleep when we r out

Thanks for your help

[Sarah - Enfys' Mum]

I think ppl find the sound of the white noise coming from my phone, which is hidden in there too, more unusual

At some point, yes, one of the naps will start to get shorter. Usually it's the morning one.

[Shiv52]

I did set naps at this age. Give or take 10/15 minutes and it worked well for us.  And we did short am/long PM from about 9 months I think. I can't remember exactly but both mine were on one nap from 12 months so it was likely 9 months as we did it for a while. 

What sort of set naps were you thinking of?

And yes!! People always mentioned me covering the buggy but I just said 'oh she needs it to be dark to sleep' and left it at that!'

[gb18]

It's good to know set naps may work. I was think at around 9.30/10 and 1.30/2.

Continuing to have some success with no nw - 4 days in a row now. Best ever!!! Yay!!! He tends to wake near 6 which throws out our day then as I never really know when to do am nap as I leave him as long as possible to 7 in cot. I am unsure if sometimes he falls back asleep for 10 mins or so.

I am wondering if he only seems to manage 11 hrs at night eg a total sleep of 14 hrs. Think I will monitor this and see what happens. Although 6 is not early I would prefer 7 but really don't want a later by than 7 if I can help it.

When u did set naps what happened if your lo woke early? What do u think about my suggested times?

[Sarah - Enfys' Mum]

If he wakes up early, you hang on and push through until nap time. The idea is that an early first nap encourages another early waking the next day I think.

[gb18]

Right, well I might try that then. Going to see how the next week goes and then maybe set nap times. If there seems to be a correlation between increased day sleep and early wake up eg lo can only sleep max 14 hr total, then I guess I may make one nap shorter by a small bit.

Just wondering what u would do if lo had a really short nap when out. My lo had 20 min nap at group today so I still tried for a rough 3 hrs, mainly because if not he would never last till bt. If I had set nap times he would have had to go over 4 hrs on 20 min nap!! Would u have just made him stay up? Think he would just have gone totally past it if I had done this

[Sarah - Enfys' Mum]

Was it the morning or the afternoon nap? 

[Shiv52]

If it was a short am nap I'd have shortened the next A time and hoped for a longer nap. Depending on the LO some people would do Early bedtime and hope for a longer night. Mine didn't extend their night so if our PM nap was a bust I'd have done a CN which I would have APed and didn't normal or slightly later BT.