almost 5m NW every 2 hrs for 3wks

[larren]

Angel DD's nights have been wonky and it seems to have started shortly after beginning to ST. I started shh/pat (actually shh/rock in a rock and play sleeper) at 14wks, trouble started at 18wks, going on for 3wks, and she is currently 21wks/almost 5 months. I’m wondering if I can get help to stop her NW every 1.75, 2, or 2.5 hrs throughout the night, every night.

When she sleeps in, I cap it at 9am, but our day usually starts at 8am. Her naps lengths are pretty textbook; 2 2hr naps, and 1 45m catnap, and are usually capped also. In the beginning, I would allow her to nap up to 2.5 hrs and cap but now I cap at 2hrs. Depending on the time she WU and her nap lengths, she sometimes skips the CN and does an EBT (usually around 2.5 A time).

Because trouble started around her 4m mark, IDK if it’s due to a GS but since it has been 3wks, I’m not sure. Other possible causes might be too much daytime sleep, needing 3-2 transition, or she is outgrowing her RNP (she was 16 lbs at her 4m checkup). I'm also not sure about making the 3-2 transition because she seems to have trouble staying up (that or she fusses because I'm boring her lol). DD is EBF and I do not plan to start solids until 6m.

- Yesterday/last night EASY -
WU 7:45
E 820
A 745-941/1h 56m
E 931
S 941-1154/2h 13m
E 1159
A 1154-209/2h 15m
E 118
S 209-348/1h 38m
E 359
A 348-539/1h 51m
E 532
S 539-627/48m
E 715
E 738
S/BT 756
E 1049
E 123
NW 320 – tried for 40m to soothe her back to sleep without feeding her, ended up feeding her at 403
E 403
WU 8

Please help!

[Layla]

Hi there,

I also think she may be sleeping a little too much during the day and I would probably look at capping those 2x2hr naps to 2x1.5hr naps. It would be pretty hard for her to sleep 12hrs at night as well as 4.45hrs during the day... if you know what I mean. I would also look at waking her up fairly consistently at 8am just to set her little internal clock. Some go +/-30mins but I liked to start the day around about the same time so that naps would fit in around the same time, etc...

So if you don't think she's ready to give up the catnap, you could aim for something like this:
8am - wake
9.30-11 - morning nap
1.30-3 - afternoon nap
5.30-6 - catnap
8ish - bedtime

What do you think?

[larren]

Thank you so much for your reponse!

I would also cap the catnap from 45m to 30m? Both of her naps today happened to be 1hr 45m so I will cap her CN at 30m..hopefully I'll experience relief tonight!

Does the interval of her NW have any significance? I think it's odd that they are at the same intervals as her daytime naps; 1h 45m, 2h, 2.5hrs...like her days and nights all blend into one routine (except without A time, of course)

[Layla]

Catnap can be up to 45mins so no need to wake her from that nap but as you start to transition to 2 naps, you could look at shortening it to 30 mins. See how you go tonight with less daytime sleep, hopefully that is all it is!

I am not sure why the intervals are the same as daytime naps... I haven't personally experienced that so not sure!

Let me know how you go

[larren]

The rest of our night was definitely better; she slept longer stretches, for sure! THANK YOU, THANK YOU!  She did have some NW that weren't hunger-related, which she didn't used to have. Could she just be adjusting to her new routine?

BT 730
NW 851
E 1151
E 430
NW 517

WU 8
S 946-1054/1h 7m
   she WU about an hour in and wouldn't go back to sleep after 20m of shh/rock so we went on with our day
S 100-238/1h 37m
   fussed at 156/55m but self-soothed. She naturally awoke from this nap
S 435-524/48m

If her first nap is short, like it was today, would it be okay to lengthen the second nap to make up for lost sleep or would it be best to cap at 1.5 to help internal clocks?

[Layla]

Great update! I suspect the morning nap was short because she might have been a little under tired...I am so sorry but that schedule I noted before was meant to have 7am wake up since the Av A for her age is about 2.5 hrs but some babies prefer shorter morning awake time so you could keep it at 2 hrs and the rest of the day leave it at 2.5. I would probably not let her sleep more than 2 hrs in the afternoon if the morning nap was short.

Let me know how tonight goes for you

[larren]

The rest of last night and today went like this:
BT 734
    2h 10m A time
NW 832 rocked
NW 926 rocked
E 109
E 441
E 719

WU 835
S 1044-1218/1h 33m
    2h 8m A time
S 216-327/1h 10m
    2h A time
S 524-607/43m
    1h 57m A time
BT 745

I capped the first nap. The second nap she awoke from, either naturally or from the kids outside, but she wasn't crying so i waited until she fussed to come in because I was hoping she would soothe herself back to sleep but she didn't. She awoke from her catnap screaming.

I'm worried that DD isn't showing signs of being able to sustain a longer A time..she gets really fussy before even the 2hr mark..I don't know how we'll even make it to 2.5! She is also difficult to put down..I used to be able to place her in bed after our WD and she'd fall asleep on her own, but today, she needed to be shh/rocked. Could she be OT from being used to 2hr naps and 1h 45m A times?

If I wanted to move DD's day to start at 8am, and assuming she would keep 2.5 A times, it would look something like this, right?
WU 8
S 10-1130
S 2-330
S 6-645
BT ?

I wasn't sure what time BT should be LOL

[Layla]

You could probably do bedtime 2hrs later since the 3rd nap is shorter than others, although some babies (mine included) could do full A on a 45min nap.

How did her night go? If you're not comfortable waking her up from her naps and feel she's getting overtired then take a step back and follow her lead. I am not sure though she'll be able to sleep 2x2hr naps and a catnap as well as 12hr night, which is why I suggested shorter nap lengths

[larren]

you're absolutely right about her needing shorter naps! I just don't know how to do that without giving her too much A time, making her OT

here is our yesterday and today
WU 827
S 1026-1208/1h 41m
   (1h 58m A time) I capped this nap, I don't know why I cheated her of a few minutes though
S 214-251/37m
   (2h 6m A time) DS was being rowdy and WU DD..I attempted to put her back to sleep for 20m but was not successful
S 429-541/1h 11m
   (1h 38m A time) she was tired from her short second nap so I allowed her to nap longer lol I was just really winging it 
S/BT 800
NW 845
E 1244
E 527

So last night was REALLY good in terms of NWs! But I know her day was no where near ideal I don't know if she slept so well because she was so darn tired or if she's confirming that less naps and more A time is what she needs

WU 800
S 1003-1205/2h 1m
   (2h 3m A time) I capped this one
S 220-346/1h 26m
   (2h 15m A time) she awoke naturally from this nap but I planned to cap it at 1.5 anyway
S -attempted CN at 550-
BT 702
   (3h 16m A time)
NW 745
E 1135
E 144
NW 532

Today I was trying to push out her A times and planning to give her 1 2hr nap, 1 1.5 nap, and a 30m CN but the CN failed. I'd really like to stay with an 8am WU because thats the time DS gets up for the day..I honestly don't have it in me to get up an hr earlier since DH lives and works in a different city half of the week

[larren]

Yesterday was a more stable day in terms of sleep times. I tried 2 - 1.5, 1 - 45 again. She was fussy and seemed to tire sooner but I will try again today and see how she goes
WU 8
S 1011-1152/1h 40m
   (2h 11m A time) falling asleep during WD
S 201-334/1h 32m
   (2h 8m A time) awoke naturally
S 522-606/43m
   (1h 48m A time) fussy at PD
BT 816
   (1h 58m A time) fussy at PD
E 1123
NW/E 227 tried to soothe her at first since it was <3 hrs since her last feeding
NW/E 630 she was cooing like it was the beginning of her day but I fed her and she went back to sleep after a few minutes

She always has NW that she self soothes through in her first few hours after BT but I don't mention those because she's handling them but I was wondering if her restlessness is any indiction of her day?

[Layla]

She could be getting used to it still (shorter naps and longer nights) or it could also be from other things -  i remember when I was trying to stretch dd3 A times, I had to take her out a lot to distract her as she would get tired around the time she would have otherwise had her nap. Could she maybe be teething and a little more cranky because of that?

[larren]

She's not teething..I was anticipating that at the first signs of her sleep troubles and even got her an amber necklace! Could she be wanting to transition out of her rock and play sleeper? I'm not sure what the signs are of LOs outgrowing them, though I did try to do a search.

I think she's breaking the past two days have been awful both in terms of naps and nights. I'm confused because I don't know if she is OT or UT..when we do WD she is fussy and even falling asleep but she doesn't nap long

Should I take a step back and let her catch up or keep going?

(yesterday) WU 8
S 1007-1147/1h 39m
   (2h 7m A time) WU naturally
S 151-240/49m
   (2h 3m A time) DD was fussy, crying/grunting, falling asleep during WD so I was hoping to get a good nap out of her but she WU naturally and wouldn't go back to sleep after 20m of trying
S 424-523/59m
   (1h 44m A time) I was going to allow this one to be a little longer since her second nap was more of a CN but she WU naturally from this nap also and wouldn't go back to sleep after 10m of trying
BT 724
   (2h A time)
E 1046
NW 1158
E 1223
E 431
E 703

(today) WU 811
S 1037-1150/1h 13m
   (2h 26m A time) I attempted to put her down 10m earlier but she was so resistant I brought her back out. She was crying again when I put her down 10m later.  Attempted to put her back to sleep for 10m after she WU.
S 151-249/58m
   (2h A time) she was quiet when I placed her in bed so I was hoping for a good nap but still only got an hr even after trying for 10m
S 501-538/37m
   (2h A time) I wanted to let her sleep longer for this nap also because the first two were not so great but she would not extend after 20m of trying
BT 720
   (1h 40m A time) fussy and crying when I put her down, needed to be shh/rocked for 15m
NW 838
NW 957
NW 1106
...and counting

I hope for a better night but who knows!

are my messages too detailed? lol I just want to do what I can to make it easier 

[Layla]

How did you go last night?

Maybe the rock and play is too small for her... at around 3-4 months, we had to move dd3 to a cot because she would bang her hands on the sides of the bassinet! Also, is she in the same room as you? Are you going to her too quickly maybe and she's used to that?

[larren]

I have been slowly trying to stretch out her A time but she is still not where she should be, but what I'm finding is that it's very difficult to put her down for naps and even BT. She is fussy and crying and needing to be rocked. Are these signs that I am pushing her too much? Yesterday she capped her CN at 30m and didn't sleep until 10pm, a 3h A time! She did similar the night before. So frustrating!!

[Layla]

It could be overtired but it could also be undertired . Is she closer to 6 months? What A time are you at now and how long does it take for her to fall asleep? If you reduce her A by say 10-15mins, does it take even longer for her to fall asleep?