almost 5m NW every 2 hrs for 3wks

[larren]

She'll be 6m in 4wks. Right now, the highest her A time gets is around 2h 15m, no more...except when she's crying for 3.5hrs at BT For her naps though, she usually falls asleep within a few minutes, like I've mentioned, lately it's harder and she's needing to be shh/rocked. When her A time is shorter, she falls asleep more quickly and quietly, usually without needing help. She's also waking herself from her naps a little shorter than 1.5hrs.

Is there something that I can do to help her go down easier at BT? She's having a NW right now (around 1h-1.5h after she fell asleep) and her cries are awful! Worse than when I first started to ST! When she gets like this, I try everything..cosleeping, nursing to sleep, etc..and nothing! Sorry for ranting lol I'm just so frustrated...

[Layla]

so if you're seeing that she settles easier with less A then take it back to those A times rather than pushing her....and maybe after a 30 min catnap she can only stay up 1.75hrs?

Is she working on anything new? rolling over? Could she be uncomfortable? too hot/too cold? Is she still swaddled? Could she be intolerant to something (if you're breastfeeding her)? Could it be that you're trying too much to settle her? In general, are you able to lay her down and leave her to put herself to sleep or do you rock her?

so sorry things aren't getting better .

[larren]

When I first started to ST, I was able to lay her down and she would fall asleep on her own (she would even SMILE when I swaddled her!), but lately she is either UT or OT that when I lay her down, she cries.

She hasn't rolled yet so she might be working on that. I try to gage her temp and remove layers of clothes if I think she could be hot because she is still swaddled (muslin, so the fabric isn't too thick). She is EBF but I haven't changed anything in my diet. Our WD is the same as it has been but I there is definitely more PU/PD action when she doesn't settle right away.

For her second nap today, I tried to go back to a shorter A time and started WD 10m earlier but she still would not settle. Thankfully DH is home and was able to relieve me and he was able to get her to sleep at 2.5hrs A time. Could I be misreading her cues and she is UT rather than OT?

Thank you so much for sticking through this with me Her cries are nothing I've ever heard and it really works my patience

[Layla]

Do you think she may be uncomfortable in the swaddle? Is she breaking out of it and waking herself up mid naps and at night?

Cues can start to become a little unreliable around this age. Maybe you could try less A again today/tomorrow and if you see she's fighting sleep and isn't falling asleep until she's around 2.5hrs anyway, then she is probably ready for the extra A.

I know there have been a lot of times I could have sworn dd was overtired but in reality she was undertired and as soon as I'd give her a little more A, she would stop the crying at nap/bedtime and would go back to going to sleep promptly. Of course you know your dd best and if you feel like its too much then like I said earlier, try less for a few days and see if that helps.

So many hugs hun... post back and let me know how tonight went

[larren]

Daylight savings time is really takes its toll when you have more than one LO, huh!? Both of them have been getting up earlier!

I've been playing with her A times and her nap lengths and seem to have better nights. She seems to be unsettled and has a few NW within the first 2hrs but only wakes 2x in the night for feedings after that. Isn't there some rule of thumb regarding those unsettled NW within the first few hrs..UT/OT?

For the past few mornings, she has also been WU and chatting and cooing to herself. I've read that I should allow her to settle herself back to sleep but it concerns me because it is so close to WU time, I'm afraid she'll put herself back to sleep only for me to wake her for the day 20m later. I also read on another thread that early WU is associated with longer first naps..I actually think you were the one responding to the OP Could that be the case with my DD; when I'm experimenting with her nap lengths the first one should always be capped at 1.5 to prevent EWU?

[Layla]

Yeah daylight saving (especially with a baby) isn't fun! Our clocks are changing in 2 weeks and I just hope dd3 will go along with the change...

Usually if the night waking is within the first 1-2hrs after bedtime, that for us means overtired.

If the morning nap is too long or too close to wake up time, that can reinforce the early wake ups. How long does she sleep for in the morning? I thought you were capping her morning nap to 1.5hrs already?

[larren]

Last night was the worst night we've ever, EVER had. DD was awake until 11pm!

When DD doesn't naturally WU on her own, I've noticed that if I let her have a 1h 45m, 1h 30m, 30-45m naps, that she has good nights but chatty EWU. So I was capping her naps but giving her an extra 15m for one nap because her nights seemed to be better that way.

Yesterday she naturally WU from all of her naps 2x 1.5, 1x 37m CN. I tried to put her down for BT after 1h 20m A time and she kept waking up after a few minutes. When I thought she was finally asleep, I took a shower but she WU and cried during my entire shower and until we both went to sleep at 11 

I feel like I'm doing it all wrong because she is becoming more difficult to put down, sometimes not just BT. When she has bad nights and falls asleep late, should I still follow the 8am WU and try to stretch her A times? What about her EWU, should I push A times then too? I know BW is more routine than schedule but I feel like if I go more off of her cues, then she would be put down for BT so early! Would I make it worse for myself if I just forced her to a 3-2? I feel like if it gets better now, in a few weeks, I'll have to deal with transitioning her to 3-2

Thanks again for all of your help and sticking with me. It really helps that I can turn here especially when DH isn't home to help me

[Layla]

Hun, I think 1hr20 isn't long enough for her, even after the catnap. I had the same A before bedtime, even after the catnap (at 4 months it was 2hrs). How long did she end up being awake for before bedtime then? 3hrs?

When she has bad nights, you could probably let her sleep in a little, maybe an extra 30mins but I probably wouldn't do more than that to stay on schedule. Or you could let her sleep in and wake up naturally but you might find her morning nap will be less than 1.5hrs and it may only be a short, 30-45min nap.

The EW and fighting sleep may mean in your case that she's ready for the 3-2

How did you go with reducing her A's - did it help or make her fight sleep even more?

[larren]

I've been trying to stretch her A times to slowly make the 3-2 transition but I'm finding that she still gets cranky and fussy with <2hrs A time. Despite that, I jiggle and dance to push her to at least start WD with 2hr A time..is that okay or am I making mistakes towards an OT baby?

She has skipped her CN these past 2 days giving her a 2h30m and 3h20m A time after a 1h35m nap. Are those A times too long? I have a few questions regarding CN: 1) what time is too late for a CN? 2) how long should I try to make her take a CN before I write it off as "fighting" and go on with our day? 3) if she does fight CN, what time is BT too early or at what A time should I aim to get her to bed at?

Her A time before BT today was 3h 20m..I tried for 20m to get her to CN but she resisted so I got her ready for her BT WD routine but I feel like her A time was way too long. I know she was tired and she fussed but essentially went down fine. I'm afraid it's too much for her and she will be OT..she slept great last night, though..still babbling in the morning but only had 2 NW before the early morning babbling.

[Layla]

If she skips her catnap, I would probably do bedtime an hour earlier (and not have her awake for anymore than 3hrs). I used to give mine up to 4pm to take her catnap (with regular bedtime being around 6.30pm)... if her usual catnap is around 5pm, maybe you could give her up to 5.30 pm to see if she will fall asleep and if she's not asleep, move onto bedtime routine.

I do think over 3hrs is too much but if its a one off then don't worry about it... this is why its important to have the other naps spread out a bit so that there isn't so much A before bedtime. The morning A may be a little tricky.. some babies like to have less A in the morning, with A's getting longer as the day goes.

[larren]

The past two days she has skipped her CN, three days ago I AP her CN because I remember we used to do it for DS when he was making the 2-1 transition. Do you recommend more to AP CN or EBT? Other than the other day, I haven't successfully AP another CN, though. DD has been going to sleep at 630, it seems so early!

In regards to stretching her A, should I push her 5m everyday or 10-15m every few days like the 3-2 transition sticky says? She's at about 2h 15m now and she falls asleep during WD, is that okay or is that a sign of pushing her too much? When making nap transitions, is it more by the clock and consistently adding more A time? She also WU from naps cranky..I assume she is just getting used to all of it also?

Oh, some nights she has NW where she doesn't go back to sleep after she has nursed. She cries and needs help getting back to sleep, which takes between 20m-30m. Is that an indicator of anything?

Sorry for all of the questions  I'm just eager to getting back to having more predicable days. Thank you, thank you again for all of your help 

[Layla]

If you can AP and it doesn't affect her nights, then you could continue to do that. For us, there came a time when the catnap was interfering with her nights (she would wake more at night on days she had her 3rd nap) so I went ahead with doing very early bedtime as I was stretching her A's. When she goes to bed at 6.30pm (which was an hour later than our bedtime during the 3-2), does she wake early too or does she seem to sleep until her usual wake up time? Do you find she's sleeping better at night and will fall asleep quicker after a feed on those nights?

I did 10-15mins every couple of days but if it seems like that's too much of a stretch for her, then do just 5 mins per day. Dd3 used to also fall asleep during WD. How long are her naps now? Is she cranky for a little bit and then ok or cranky throughout her whole next A time?

Her waking up at night and needing help to get back to sleep could be lots of things? Have you found a correlation between her doing this when she's had the catnap or not?

[larren]

Because she has been skipping her CN, she has been having a 3hr A before BT every day for the past week or so, is that fine? She seems to be handling it fine as her nights are good (with the exception of those two consecutive nights she had NW that needed assistance). On the days she skips her CN and goes for EBT, she usually WU a little earlier than usual; around 730-745, as oppose to 8am or later. There doesn't seem to be a correlation between her CN and NW that need help..happened one night (no CN), then the following day had the AP CN and had another NW. Might've happened more frequently but my notes are all over the place in the middle of the night  I have to try harder at being on top of that...

I've been capping her naps at 1h 30m..sometimes I get busy and go a little over but it stays in the ballpark. When she WU cranky, it is usually only for a little bit. This morning, though, I think I may have pushed her too much and her first nap was only 1h 5m and she was cranky throughout her A. I have her A marked at 2.5hrs but it might've been more if she WU earlier than I thought. Would it be okay to lengthen her second nap in this case? I'm afraid her day will be so short if I don't (assuming she skips her CN).

EDIT: neighborhood kids woke her at 1h 38m

[Layla]

If she's handling 3hrs before bedtime, then that's good! Try not to stretch her more than that though. In my opinion, her wake up is pretty good, she's going to bed at 6.30pm and waking up at 7.30am, which is excellent (with the exception of those few nights )

I would let her sleep longer in the pm if her morning nap was cut short too. I am sorry to hear she was woken up by your neighbour's kids.. I hope you managed to get her to take the catnap and if not, try and not worry about it too much... she seems to be doing well with earlier bedtime so my suggestion would be to do just that!

I hope she has a good a night tonight

[larren]

She took a 45m CN yesterday and just like your DD, she had more NW. Her first nap today was 1h38m but her second one was only 1h5m again! Both A were 2.5hrs..could I be pushing her too much, causing her to take short naps? DH is with her right now, attempting to lengthen her nap because I'm now dreading a CN