Author Topic: 8m/o Fussy for a month now. Is my EASY right?  (Read 4439 times)

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Offline MarciaMSPT

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Re: 8m/o Fussy for a month now. Is my EASY right?
« Reply #15 on: March 06, 2014, 16:42:52 pm »
Glad I waited... he's been down for 1.5 hours now for first nap... :)

I'll dabble with the solids... thanks for the encouragement... that it's not a big deal that he's not interested right now...but I will switch to more finger foods instead of purees and see what he does...

Oh, yes, I think he is trying to teeth but I can never tell except for the exceptional drooling!  He's got 4.5 teeth now...

He woke early this morning and I put him down at 10:15 instead of 10ish... so his A time was basically 3.5 hours today... might be the answer - until tomorrow! :):)
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Re: 8m/o Fussy for a month now. Is my EASY right?
« Reply #16 on: March 06, 2014, 17:53:48 pm »
his A time was basically 3.5 hours today
Not uncommon for this age.  You could be on your way back on track :) Let's hope so.

Great first nap!! :)


Offline MarciaMSPT

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Re: 8m/o Fussy for a month now. Is my EASY right?
« Reply #17 on: March 06, 2014, 18:25:56 pm »
Hope so!  He slept till 12:30 but I also opened his door to start arousing him so as not to mess up his afternoon nap and ultimately bedtime... thanks for your help...

It just means a lot to be able to "pick up the Phone" so to speak and hear someone holding my hand!  I went through awful postpartum stuff earlier and this website has saved my sanity - along with the grace and help of God!

Hugs!
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Re: 8m/o Fussy for a month now. Is my EASY right?
« Reply #18 on: March 06, 2014, 18:32:47 pm »
Oh, hugs to you too! :)
The forums have saved my sanity too - we are all here for the wonderful support of this community :)

Hope you night goes well, there may be some more tweaking yet to work out his best length nap and A time to keep the nights going smoothly etc but FX all looks like it's going the right way!


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Re: 8m/o Fussy for a month now. Is my EASY right?
« Reply #19 on: March 06, 2014, 20:47:29 pm »
Thanks Creations!

We have been blessed so far to not have but a handful of night time issues.  I hope it stays that way... but pray for strength if it doesn't!  He slept a long nap this morning but I think he was catching up and he might not be feeling 100% great.  One day at a time!  Thanks for everything!
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Re: 8m/o Fussy for a month now. Is my EASY right?
« Reply #20 on: March 11, 2014, 19:42:43 pm »
Well, we've tweaked with success.  I had to cap his morning nap at 1.5 hours and no later than 12.  So he goes down about 10:30 now and up at 12.  I imagine I will need to cap it even more as his A time gets longer.  Anyhow, this allows for a decent time and length of afternoon nap and still doing well for night time.  Took some tweaking but it also took this anxious mommy a lot of saying, "it is what it is... it will all work out..."  :):)

So thankful for nicer weather now... Waylon loves to be outside and I do to! 

Wondering if as we move his third feeding/meal to 5pm, he will eventually just drop the 7:15ish bottle feed before bed?  No hurry, just curious! :)  We always wondered when we/he would drop the dream feed until one night he just refused it and that was that.  Done!
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Re: 8m/o Fussy for a month now. Is my EASY right?
« Reply #21 on: March 12, 2014, 00:10:15 am »
Congratulations on your great tweaking :)
Really lovely to read your update.

Wondering if as we move his third feeding/meal to 5pm, he will eventually just drop the 7:15ish bottle feed before bed?  No hurry, just curious!
The BT milk feed will be one of the last feeds to go.  In a couple of months you may see a drop in one of the day milk feeds, mid morning or mid afternoon, and this will switch to a solids snack with a sippy/open/straw cup of water, then the other will switch. Leaving the WU and BT milk feeds, these continue right up to and often beyond 12 months.  Guidance is to drop bottles by 12 months but as you are BF there is no rule, you can continue as long as you like :)  If you wanted to wean from BF you could switch this BT milk to cows milk in a bottle or cup or drop it at 12 months, same with the morning WU BF - however LO will need a decent milk drink or two each day long beyond 12 months old. The milk is needed before BT and on WU because it's such a long stretch to go without eating, milk sustains them through the night which solids can't/doesn't do for some time yet.
hth :)


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Re: 8m/o Fussy for a month now. Is my EASY right?
« Reply #22 on: March 14, 2014, 14:59:10 pm »
Thanks Creations!

He does get EBF milk, but it is donor breast milk.  She is supplying us through his first year and then I have another donor after that for as long as I would like.

About the naps...  He's sleeping 1.5 hours in the morning 10:30 to 12.  He would sleep longer but I've found that to mess things up for the rest of the day.

I'm still get some early morning wakings usually around 6:20 or 6:30 ish... he usually goes back to sleep but is often awake by 6:45 just waiting for me to come in at 7. 

His pm nap starts between 3:15 and 3:30 and goes for 45 min to an hour.  Is this too long/ too late in the day with BT around 7:45 to 8? 

When I go anywhere, it's at least a 30-60 minute drive.  Are two cat naps in the car (going and coming home) equal to a one hour nap in his crib at home?

It's all about nap time and sometimes it makes me feel trapped.  Actually, I either have to do a close by visit to someone we know to get out in teh afternoon for change of pace OR plan on an hour drive with CN going and coming for things to work right.  Tell me I'm not in this boat alone :)

Thanks!
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Re: 8m/o Fussy for a month now. Is my EASY right?
« Reply #23 on: March 14, 2014, 15:36:05 pm »
You're not alone!!
For most of my DS's first year he got a 2hr nap morning at home in his bed, then CNs in the car on our way to and from somewhere. During phases he would nap 1hr to 1.5hr in the car and I felt trapped there as I couldn't move him or he'd wake. Other phases he could live with 2 40min CNs which seemed less of a trap for me but even so I felt like I lived in the car!!  For us this worked as a decent compromise between place we absolutely must go to and places we'd like to go to (mummy and baby groups), balancing his sleep needs with family needs/commitments. Moving to one nap felt both better and worse at the same time, needing to be home in time for that nap, dropping the nap altogether was again another better/worse situation - we no longer had to dash home for his bed but I missed my break in the day.  It's all about balance.
If you can find something that works for you and your LO then that is the right routine.

2 car CNs are not going to be equal to 1 longer nap at home but so long as he's in a reasonable mood and his nights are ok then it's fine. It does you both good to get out and see the world :)

WRT the mornings, mine always woke early too, when he was a little older I used to leave a board book tucked in the side of his cot for him to 'read' in the morning, it kept him occupied and gave me an extra 20 mins in bed (only do this with something you feel very safe going into the cot, my DS never chewed on books or I wouldn’t have left one with him as it could be a choke hazard).
You might find moving the first nap a bit later helps with the morning wake up time or makes the last A shorter which could help if he is OT for the night. But if he's fine then don't worry about it, it's no harm for him to lay in bed for a while before you get him up, mine liked that time with his own thoughts.

So really - if it's working then it's working. If not then you need a tweak.
Do you plan things for yourself for during nap time? I used to stand at the back door to get some air and look at the trees, it helped to feel a bit brighter rather than trapped.


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Re: 8m/o Fussy for a month now. Is my EASY right?
« Reply #24 on: March 14, 2014, 20:10:13 pm »
Hum...  all good info and glad we are all in this together.  I'm a new mommy and what a change of pace!

I don't feel I can move his morning nap later (but I hadn't thought of that) because I figured it would move everything later.

I'm capping his morning nap (A time 3.5 hours) to 1.5 hours and then his pm nap (A time 3.5 hours) to 45 min... and then bedtime at 7:45 or 8ish (3.5 to 3.75 hours). 

He does not like me waking him in the afternoon and I hate too but I'm not sure what else to do.  Should I let him sleep for an hour for his PM nap and then plan on BT at 8?  He does get crankier as the day goes on... and until he's fed about 7pm he can be a bear, but then after feeding is an angel.  :(

Any thoughts?
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Re: 8m/o Fussy for a month now. Is my EASY right?
« Reply #25 on: March 14, 2014, 22:41:00 pm »
I wonder how he would respond if you shortened the second and third A times a bit.  Not all A times need to be the same through the day (in the younger months it is more common though) and perhaps a shorter A would help him not be so grumpy when he wakes from the second nap, then a short A to BT following the shorter nap too?
What have you found - does he not settle for BT without that long A time?
Is he hungry after the second nap then?  Could you post your EAS times as they are now so I can see where his meals etc are?


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Re: 8m/o Fussy for a month now. Is my EASY right?
« Reply #26 on: March 16, 2014, 00:41:14 am »
Hi... I could try putting him down a bit earlier for his second nap, not sure he will go for that though.  However, I do end up carrying him in my carrier on my back for about 30 minutes before he goes down.  By doing this, would I let him sleep longer for that second nap? 

I think he would settle with a shorter A time but we were pushing BT a bit and cutting second nap to no later than 4:15 trying to eliminate the early morning wake ups (any time between 6:15 and 6:30).

OK... so EAS looks like this:

7 Up and eat Breastmilk and solids
10:30 Nap till 12

12 Up and eat BM and solids
3:15 or 3:30 nap till 4:15 (this is the one that I'm still playing around with and trying to tweak)

4:15 up
4:30 eat  BM and solids (I was trying to push this closer to 5 but he wouldn't go for that and I"m happy with 4:30 as it gives a good amount of time, I think, between that feed and his last bottle...which I don't want too closer together).

7 or 7:15 BreastMilk only

BT between 7:30 and 8:00)  - (again, trying to tweak but have to just go with it sometimes!)
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Re: 8m/o Fussy for a month now. Is my EASY right?
« Reply #27 on: March 16, 2014, 10:56:25 am »
Are you giving BM followed immediately with solids at 7, 12 and 4.30?

Yes, i think if the second nap was a little earlier you could do 1hr there, or longer, to reduce the A to BT down to 3 or 3hr 15, it looks a bit long at the moment don't you think?

His EW at 6.15/30 do they seem like OT wake ups to you or do you think he is fully rested?  What do you/he do between that 6.15 WU and the 7am start to the day?
It's just his total sleep in 24hrs is quite short and I'm wondering where he would like a bit more sleep.  My DS had such a strong body clock waking him in the morning that moving BT later just meant he lost sleep and over time got really OT, an earlier BT meant he still woke early but had a proper full night sleep.  any of this sound familiar or am I right off track?


Offline MarciaMSPT

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Re: 8m/o Fussy for a month now. Is my EASY right?
« Reply #28 on: March 16, 2014, 14:26:06 pm »
Hey there...  first of all, thanks so much for keeping in constant communication with me... it really helps with my anxiety issues :)

Yes, I give him some milk then some solids, then some milk then solids... I make sure that I end with all the milk (about 6-7 oz) as that is more important right now.    Do you recommend something different?  He's always been fed this way... sticking pretty much to the easy. i've read here that some do BM and then later solids... but not sure how this would go over for him?  I can play with it but if i start playing with too many things, then I don't know what causes what :)

Saturday (Sabbath) was a long day for us - only 3, 30 min catnaps so today will be catch up day I'm sure (already put him down early for his first nap)

Wondering if I should let him sleep for a full two hours in the morning if he wants to instead of cutting it short to get him up at noon - usually a 1.5 hour nap? 

So the EW aren't consistent.  He used to cry until we got him up...but sometimes I could tell it was an "I'm cold" and sure enough I would go in and cover him and he went right back to sleep.  Now, he might cue a little but and then drop back to a snooze.  It does seem to be getting better (the EW that is) and I"m trying to roll with it...but if I let it get out of hand for my sanity... I go downhill anxiety wise... :(  As far as what I do?  I worry!  But he seems fine these days to just cue and then snooze.  His room is dark dark so putting a book or something like you mentioned may not be feasible due to the dark room. 

How much sleep do you think he is short on over a 24 hour period?

I think you are right ON track!  Some things I hadn't thought of.  His fussiness from about 9:30 in the morning till 10:30 may mean he's just tired.  I thought he was just bored and clingy.  Same with the afternoon and evening. 

Depending on your thoughts, I might shorten morning A time to 3:15min and let him sleep till he's done and then play the next nap by ear?  That doesn't sound EASY to me :)  but I"ve got to roll with it sometimes! :)

Was always afraid to put him down too early for fear that he would do an EW and or fuss and cry before going to sleep, BUT, these days, if he cries, it's usually only for about a minute or so.

Anxious to hear your thoughts.

Thank you so much!

« Last Edit: March 16, 2014, 14:28:24 pm by MarciaMSPT »
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Re: 8m/o Fussy for a month now. Is my EASY right?
« Reply #29 on: March 16, 2014, 19:16:45 pm »
thanks so much for keeping in constant communication with me... it really helps with my anxiety issues
No problem. I come on whenever I can although obviously I have my DS and family life too so I can't always answer quickly regarding a specific problem for that day or that nap. If you find yourself in that position of really needing some one right now (for nap help or for a hug or just to vent to) please feel free to start a thread with something 'now' or 'quick' in the thread title on a relevant board. The great thing about this community is it is world wide so there is always someone up and about to respond to an urgent message.

You've mentioned your anxiety a few times. I realise you recognise this which is important, do you feel that you are coping though? Do you feel that talking to someone either on the couch or PPD board might be helpful?  Do you feel you would like to speak to someone in real life to help with these anxieties?  You don't need to answer any of these questions. I just want you to know there are people who can support you if you need it.  There are also many mums here with experience of anxiety who would be able to offer advice or hugs if you want them.

In terms of day and night sleep. it looks like he's getting 10.5 - 11hrs at night which is what mine always did (we rarely reached the magical 12 hr night unless it was just following a nap drop. At 3yo and with no nap we get 12 hr nights (sometimes 12.5hr!) but amazingly still have the 6.30am WU!!  If I am lucky he sleeps until lights on at 6.45am but getting him past this marker would be hard and seems not really worth the bother).  But your DS's day sleep seems less than many his age. I would think two 1.5hr naps or a 2hr and a 1hr would be preferable and if possible an 11hr+ night too. So...
I might shorten morning A time to 3:15min and let him sleep till he's done and then play the next nap by ear?
Yes. now that he is getting a decent nap of 1.5hr+ I would try a slightly shorter A.  See if you can fit in 2 good naps in the day and not put him to bed too late, 7.30 at the latest really if WU is likely to be 6.30am.
Cooing and snoozing after WU is good though, he is just chilling out there :)

Eating. Honestly I never came across anyone that fed solids and milk this way at the same time. That's not to say you are doing it 'wrong' only I just never saw it. Everyone I know and everyone I came across here does milk feeds only then an hour later solids feed only (with a sippy cup of water).  The reason I asked for you EAS a couple of posts back to see where his meals were is because you said he seemed grumpy until his 7pm milk so I was wondering why that was.  So, the theory behind milk first solids later:
As you know milk is their primary food until 1yo. It is highest in fat, nutrients and calories, it's the good stuff (esp bm).
Solids on the other hand are for learning about tastes, smells, textures in the first instance. Over time the solids increase but the milk rarely drops until more like 10 months. Between 6 - 10 months the milk intake sort of stays the same and the increased appetite (due to growth) is sated with solids.  It also means that milk feeds can shift to more than 4hrs if needed (say 5hrs because a nap comes at the 4hr E mark so LO goes longer between milk E) because they are also eating between the milk feeds which keeps them going.
Whilst there is no need to limit milk intake there are occasions when limiting solids is needed to ensure milk intake is high enough, keeping milk and solids feeds separate allows LO to fully fill up on milk and then build just a little appetite for solids coming an hour later. My concern with doing milk and solids at the same time is that his tummy is getting filled with solids and not allowing him to take as much milk as he would like because he just feels full, then a while later he may feel hungry because he has long to wait until the next meal.  At this age they are more active so burning off those calories more too.  Some of the fussiness you are seeing in him may have nothing to do with sleep, it could just be that he has used up all his energy and needs some food to keep him going.  Mine looks like he is going to nod off until he's given a couple of crackers or a bunch of grapes and suddenly he's running around the house like a mad thing full of energy again.  So, give this some thought, an average E routine would look like this:
Milk at 7, 11, 3, 7 (with some shifting based on LOs personal routine)
Solids at 8 (breakfast plus water), 12 (lunch plus water), 4 (dinner plus water, could be 4.30/5.00)

Later on (around 10-12 months) the 11am and 3pm milks switch to solids snacks with water drink.

(By the way - I forgot to mention in my earlier post how great I think it is that you have donor breast milk!  That's really cool!)

OK. I said quite a lot. Let it sink in and see what you think xx