help for today-ew & set times

[Aishi]

Shes 26 mo now. Set naps and bt weve been doing for few months and i only capped nap at 1.5h for last two days cos she didnt fall asleep at set time of 1, it was 1.45 and yesterday 2.15

Meds work in motn when i give neurofen but at nap and bt i give calpol. I thought neurofen all three times was a bit much

She had two co last night and i gave dm at 3.30. She did 7.30-7.15 am. I was thinking nap at 1.45/2-3.30 and bt 7.15/7.30. wdyt?

[*Becky*]

I thought neurofen all three times was a bit much

definitely, I was not suggesting that hun, I actually think meds at nap and BT is a bit much especially if it is not working but you know her best, it's your call on that one.

Re the routine I think it looks ok tbh. I would still stick with a set nap but if you think the time of 1pm is not working anymore then you could try 1.30/45pm but stick with it yes?

[barbaraz78]

I would also move nap later if at 1 pm she doesn't fall asleep. And I would cap the nap (I think we did 1.75 h nap at her age, with 11 h nights) but not the am. In this way, if she is tired she can sleep more in the am.

[Aishi]

Thing is when she was waking around 6.30 she would fall asleep at 1 (set nap) but when she started waking later and i pd at 1/1.15 she was ut which led to ot for nap that as later and i capped to preserve bt. But cos she was ot by then, bt was a mess too. Today she woke at 7.15 and i pd at 1.35, she was asleep by 1.45 so a total of 6.5h a (which is what she was doing when waking at 6.15/6.30). Thats why im thinking set naps are not working for her cos she only falls asleep when the a time is 6.5h or she gets ot.

Dk what im asking really. Just wondering if a times work for anyone at this age and how to get consistency?

[*Becky*]

well you can always stick to a set A time rather than clock time so PD after 6.5 hours regardless of wake up...but like pp's have said you need to stick to whatever you decide.

[HenaV]

Hey there!

I'm sorry that your LO sleep is still causing such frustration. I agree (as I know you know!) with Becky and really think that you need to decide your plan and stick with it. I know that your LO is sensitive to OT and that you are really worried about making things worse. Don;t forget I come from the same place, and for us consistency was key because R knew where she was at iykwim?

H x

[Aishi]

Thanks ladies! i know youre right about sticking to a plan and consistency so i think i will go with my gut and stick to a set a time of 6.5h am a, cap at 1h45 min and bt 4h or so later.

Lets all keep fxd im not back here in a few weeks

[HenaV]

Good luck x

[barbaraz78]

It sounds good! Good luck!

[*Becky*]

good luck!

[Aishi]

Thanks im going to need it. Nothing went according to the new plan

[Aishi]

How could dd be ot on a 13 h day??!

yesterday

Wu 7.15
nap 2.25-4 capped (pd at 1.35 so she would sleep by 1.45/2 but didnt give meds for teeth in case im over medicating and ended up giving at 2)
bt 8.15 (pd at 7.30 since am a was so long) gave meds at bt and dm at 3

So just an 13h day with 1.5h nap you would think she would handle.that nope. Ot night. Wu 5.50. wth am i supposed to make of this?!   

If i stick with set a time of 6.5h that means nap at 12.20   Im tempted to just drop the nap and go with really ebt. Wdyt?!

[kaipooi]

My DS is exactly the same as your DD. Only I don't think he is HSN. I believe he is ASN. Sleep went crazy at 18 months, 22.5 months and now at 26 months, super sensitive to OT. He can get OT with just one bad nap day... I am going crazy trying to figure out his A time as well. Like you, I have tried many times to do set times (I mean, he is old enough now!) and ended up massively OT. I ended up going back to counting A time.

Now, to your question of how DD can be OT on a 13 hour day? Well, my boy does the same. The problem is that on days when he does a late nap, it ends later and hence bedtime gets later. As such, his total hours per day gets longer and he gets OT. 1.5hours of nap on a 13 hour day gets my boy OT. If I wake him from his nap, he gets OT. If I don't wake him from his nap, bedtime gets later and he gets OT due to too long a day.

As such, I am fiercely protective of his nap times. It makes going out in the morning a rush home all the time. Try explaining all this to friends and family. And endlessly ask myself if I made him like this or it's just him... sighs...

I don't have answers for you but to just let you know that you are not alone...

PS: I nearly cried with relief when I read your posts... for once, I did not feel so alone...

[jessmum46]

(((Hugs))) Aishi, but no, I would not do a NND with a 5.50am WU and less than 10h night sleep.  I think that's asking for disaster if she's already OT.  I know we all keep saying the same but you can't keep trying to analyse and change things daily, you need to pick a plan and stick with it for a good week or two.  Toddler sleep is not 'fixed' in a day.  If there's already OT build-up then a 13h day with a 1.5h nap may well be way too long.  That only allows for 12.5h sleep in 24 which (if she really is HSN) is not a lot.  J can only do a 13h day on a 1.5h nap when well-rested, and she's never been as HSN as your DD. 

I really do sympathise, I'm not finding this age and stage very easy at all for sleep.  But I think you perhaps need to revise your idea of consistency.....at least I found I needed to in any case for my own sake.  Consistency in terms of same WU time, same naptime, same length nap and easy straight to sleep BT every night I think is just a bit unrealistic with most toddlers.  I don't know if that's what you're after but maybe just altering your expectations a little might help?

Our routine is not 'consistent' in the conventional sense at all.  Three days a week her napping is out of my hands at nursery.  At home, our consistency comes from me trying for a nap every day at the same time and doing BT at pretty much the same time every day.  Sometimes she'll go straight to sleep, sometimes she'll take a while, sometimes she won't nap at all.  But she is in her room at the same time each day and knows what to expect.  And I think that's more important really than having the exact same sleep times on paper.  And it takes the guesswork out.  Yes she's OT some days, UT others.  But that's ok. 

If we'd had your day yesterday I would have capped the nap shorter (wake at 3.15pm) and BT 7pm as that's our normal BT.  Whatever the am A time J would have needed at least 4h A after a 1.5h nap so a full 1.5h nap that late in the day would have pushed BT too late.  Do you think if you had a consistent BT in mind that you could aim for instead of changing daily that would help?

Just another thought - what do you do in the mornings when she wakes early?  Do you have an 'earliest acceptable' WU time?  For us it's 6.30am and has been since she was tiny.  I'd always try to resettle a 5.50am WU, especially with such a late BT.  I know it isn't always successful but I'd definitely give it a go.

More hugs, I do know how frustrated you must feel x

[Aishi]

Thanks for posting kaipooi. Its reassuring to know that my lo isnt the only one so sensitive to ot. One nap can throw her off too. She seems to have had one thing after another too. 18 Mo sr, teeth, dev leap, prop and now molars makes me wonder whats the point having an IS who doesnt sleep?!

Katherine thanks for your thoughts. The thing is i have been consistent since we moved to set times, nap was 12.30 then moved to 1 and bt was set at 7 on a good nap and 6.30 on less than 2 h nap. But she doesnt seem to have adjusted, when the nap is short the a to bt even at 6.30 is too long and i get an ot baby. U pd to be asleep for 6.30 and as shes already ot from short nap and she takes ages to fall asleep, followed by a short night and an ot cycle. The last few days i pd for set nap at 1/1.15 and shes ut cos she woke at 7.15 and she takes till 2.15/30 to fall asleep. I cap nap and do later bt and she is still ot. There seens to be no winning. Guaranteed the above issues havent helped but im not convinced that set times.are working. I dont knw how much more consistent i can be!

As for what i want re consistency is similar wu, nap time and bt which is what i thoight set times would do since it sets the body to sleep at those times. I have nothing of the sort. She wakes up between 5.45-7. i dont wake up cos i was told not to wake if capping nap, set nap is a joke when i tried for 1 cos nap length varies so much (1.25-2.5h) vary rarely 2.5h tho and cos nap is usually 1.5 or less she is ot by the time set bt of 7 comes.round.

The days she has ew and i stick to set bt -15min so 12.45, she is ot by nap time so short naps, then really long am.a and pma a of at least 4 h on a 1.5h nap means shes ot again. Yesterday she should have been ok because the previous two days she had  ts of 13.5h ish per day which is what i think she needs but cos i didnt medicate amd she had such a late nap she got ot really quickly. Bottom line is i think shes touchy when it comes to sleep and gets ot that quickly.

I have tried settling ew too but she gets hysterical whereas if i wait for our set wu time of 7 she can sing and chatter happily till then.

Sorry for the rant i just hope someone can see what i may be missing. Up until 18mo.sr she was a great sleeper bar teething but meds usually sorted that!