ew

[haribo89]

Hi all, back again!
My nearly 20 mo DD has been fighting BT and naps for the past 2-3 mo. We went though lots of NW, got past that and started fighting BT and naps, only way we could get her to wind down was rocking her. For a week we had 11hr nights with only 1 wake up and some sttn! For the first time ever. Although BT was hard work getting her asleep still. Now the EWs have started, she wants to sleep, she tries for an hour but ends up frustrated.
Her day looks like this atm -

Wu - 6
Nap 1-3 ( I was capping at 1.5 but been giving her longer due to ew)
Asleep - 8.30

Could her need to be rocked be causing her to ew? When she ew we do try rocking and she closes her eyes but its like she is dozing. If she wasnt so tired it wouldn't be to bad but I know she is and wants to go to sleep. We only started rocking to get her asleep at a reasonable time, she wasnt going until 11pm or later before because she just couldn't wind down. Now im wondering if we should stop it, ride through the bad BTs and naps and hopfully it will get rid of the EWs?
She has all her teeth except her 2yo molars which dont seem to be a problem yet.
Any ideas please?

[*Becky*]

bumping up x

[HenaV]

Hi!

I'm just wondering looking at your day whether it's a little long at 14.5h, even on a 2h nap.

I'd try something like:

WU: 6am
Nap1-2.30
BT:7pm (or 7.30 max if you allow 2h nap)
What do you think?

Re: rocking. I don't think it will be te cause of ew, but will I think affect her ability to ss. So
The same and you or me - wake in the night, roll over and back to sleep. But if we get used to having to have a prop to help us go back off, we'd struggle to go back off yk?

Before you started rocking, was she IS? How long have you been rocking for?

Hena

[haribo89]

Hiya.
I do agree it is to long but its not from lack of trying to get her asleep earlier, even if she is put down at 7 she is not asleep until 8.30-ish. She only goes then after numberous times of rocking and putting her down.
At around 16 months her routine was
7
12-2
8
And we would do wind down (bath, books) and place in cot awake although we would stay in the room. She used to be rocked all the time until 10 months when we started GW, but we went from illness to teething and back so much we never did get out of the room. From 17 months we occasionally rocked when we had a really hard time getting her to sleep or back off after long NW, it progressivly increased without us really realising. However the strangest thing is that although bt and naps take a long time to get her to sleep and that shes relying on us to help her get to sleep shes sttn / 1/2 NW where before we had 4/8 NW a night but she would go to sleep great at a reasonable time. It doesn't make much sense to me.

[haribo89]

Well just a quick update, we decided to stop/reduce rocking which is going awful, the funny thing is now she doesn't want to be rocked, which is great however she just can't seem to settle. She would happierly jump around the cot for hours chatting away, i dont know if its the right or wrong thing to do but we have been leaving the room if she stands (she then cries) and then we go back and lay her down and hum next to her cot with a hand on her, if she stands again we repeat, i thought it would help encourage her to at least try and sleep rather than her just finding ways to amuse herself. When she does try she just ends up rolling around and changing possitions every 30 seconds. After an hour of shananigans she usually ends up being sick though, she has reflux and it only takes a little crying to make her sick and its always ALOT. Naps are taking well over an hour to get her to sleep, with an added 15 mins of sick cleaning. BT is taking 2-3 hours to go to sleep, last night it took 45 min to clean 5 big puddles of sick. I feel awful about it all, i did give in and try and rock her just so she wasnt sick again but she just went stiff and cried more. I debated if she is even tired but after a week of 9hr nights she must be. I really dont know what the matter is or how to help.

[HenaV]

You are effectively doing Wi/wo which will work given she was once an iS - you just have to give it time so she can re-learn the rules as it were yk?

Personally I'd preserve with it. I have no experience of reflux so can't help there. But this is what inhale always employed re:Wi/WO:


I've always followed the following rules when I have had to do Wi/WO:

(1) BT as normal
(2)Get the 'don't go, I need you mummy' patter from R. My response: No R is time for night nights (or whatever your sleepy phrase is), lay her down and leave shutting the door behind me (she sleeps in the dark with the door closed) ... And let the games begin!!
(3)R will kick off the minute I walk away- stand back and assess. Is the cry upset/distress OR temper/frustration. If it's the latter, do not go in. Hold back. There is a difference IMO between upset and angry cries - don't jump in! If it is the former, implement (4)
(4) go in - put back into bed/ lay down and again say sssh, it time for night nights now - and again leave
(5) again stand back and assess and do not rush in. Only go in if you LO is upset not just angry / frustrated. If you need to go back in, say NOTHiNG - simply put back into bed/lay down and leave
(6) rinse and repeat (5) until he gives in - HE WILL. It may take hours the 1st time, it will take less time the 2nd time and so on until he decides it's just not worth the effort 

Top tip: make sure you have something to occupy you waiting on the landing - Phone, book, game - something that can distract you and stop you rushing in/ going in prematurely. You will be there for a while so be prepared to stay the course and I promise you will crack it - he will relent before you do.

Hth x

[haribo89]

Thank you for that. I guess it is a bit like wiwo although I am there when she eventually falls asleep.
Im not sure if to do full wiwo with her, as shes never ss withoutcleanthe room before. I find the hardest part the fact that she gets so sick and the time it takes to clean up and then its like starting from scratch again. Routine wise shall i stick to set nap of 1 and bt 7.30 and push through any OTness and hope she gets into a decent WU?
Thanks again

[HenaV]

I would. I think you need to stick with a plan for at least a week to see how things settle down. You won't know otherwise whether it's right / what the effect of the change is yk?

So nap at 1
BT: 7pm if nap 1.5h Or less
BT: 7.30 if nap 2h

Basically try and work to a 13h day but if you don't cap at 1.5h allow a little longer to BT BUt i wouldn't Extend the day too much.

What do you think?

H x

[haribo89]

I think that sounds great, thanks, now its just getting her to sleep  Im not sure on which method to use, she is certainly the most stubbon LO i have met.

[HenaV]

You've not met mine  but seriously, all you can do is stick to the day you decide on as closely as possible. If she doesn't fall asleep and isn't wanting you, don't stress, just give it a shot xx