Why is she doing this? I'm on the edge!!

[Hollie-Mae]

My dd is 6mo on Thursday and everything has gone wrong. The issue for this post is the dream feed. She is somehow waking up during it, getting wind, I then have to wake her to get the wind up then when I think she's asleep in my arms and put her down again she smiles at me. This went on until 1.30am last night when I'd tried everything, I ended up taking her out in the car. As you can imagine she's then so over tired all day, won't eat properly, a vicious cycle. What is going on???

[Shiv52]

Have you dropped the CN and moved to 2 naps yet?  Sounds like UT behaviour x

[Hollie-Mae]

Yes we dropped the cn a while ago as it didn't fit in to the day any longer. It does sound like it but she can't possibly be UT unless she's had secret espressos lol she's been a bugger for sleep for weeks and naps are all over the place!

[Shiv52]

Can you post your day?

How many oz of milk does she take in a day?  Has she been finishing her DF?

And lastly is she an independent sleeper?

[Hollie-Mae]

Well milk is an issue at the moment as she's just not so interested.  Yesterday she had  22oz  of milk feeds, 2oz of milk in her morning porridge and a solid food lunch. Over the past few weeks despite my best attempts I've just not been able to get her to take her usual 7oz bottles. She's dropped the second milk of the day as she was only having 2oz and that was a fight! She wasn't sleeping through the night until I got her up to the amount of milk she's having now and for a whole I had to give her three solid feeds a day but I felt it was too much too soon as she was getting constipated and I'd rather give her all milk and no food at this age! Yep she finishes the df. This morning she only seemed to want 2oz milk but I persevered and played with her between each oz and managed to get her to drink 4oz before adding another two to porridge!

She's not a completely independent sleeper, I do put her down drowsy  and she falls asleep with her dummy in holding my hand, I've had one or two nights where I've been able to put her down eyes open and talking and with some patting, dummy and bunny in her hand she's fallen asleep by herself, but the conditions are very rarely right for me to teach her to do this, she seems to need to be held for quite a while to get drowsy enough before being put down to fall asleep if this makes sense?

An average day looks like this-

Wu- 7am
E- 7.30 (milk then porridge)
S- 9.45-10.30
E-11 (solids)
S- 1.15-2.45
E- 3 (milk)
E- 6.30 or 7 depending on how tired/hungry she is (milk)
BT- between 7 and 7.30 after bath
DF- between 10 and 11

[Lolly]

I would have a play with her bottle timings and see if that helps. At 6 months she should really still be on 4 day time bottles with solids offered about an hour after a milk feed. The 11am E would be better as a milk feed and then some solids about 12 ish.

Do you have her on the fastest flow teat? She could also be teething by now which often disturbs their milk intake, you could try teething gel on her gums a little bit before a feed.

Laura

[Shiv52]

I agree about milk intake. At 7.5 months I needed to totally stop all solids with my DD2 as her milk intake just got silly and after a week or two introduced solids slowly again. Milk has way more calories per oz at this age so you want to make sure you get it into them or you'll end up all night like I did!

She's not a completely independent sleeper, I do put her down drowsy  and she falls asleep with her dummy in holding my hand, I've had one or two nights where I've been able to put her down eyes open and talking and with some patting, dummy and bunny in her hand she's fallen asleep by herself, but the conditions are very rarely right for me to teach her to do this, she seems to need to be held for quite a while to get drowsy enough before being put down to fall asleep if this makes sense?

At this age this could be becoming an issue. Because you are an integral part of her going to sleep and the sleep between BT and DF is probably enough to revive her to play and have fun. And because she needs you to go to sleep you can't leave her to it YK?  I would start by either putting her down more away then ssh patting or else keep helping her get drowsy but remove the hand holding so she starts to do more of the going to sleep herself. What do you think?

[Hollie-Mae]

I agree totally with milk intake. She was really hungry yesterday and cried an hour after her solids lunch so I offered her milk and she took 4oz, but then it all goes downhill. It just seems if there is any spacing she isn't hungry at the next feed. Well, that's what I was assuming, but it seems she just doesn't really want milk anymore! We had a really bad night as she woke at 9.30, hungry, I made her wait until 10 for the dream feed hour and she only took 3oz which was what she had lacked from the bottle before bed so I needed to get more into her to sustain her through the night but she just would not take it and then would not settle. We tried everything before my husband ended up taking her out in the car. I then tried dream feeding it when she was in bed but she obviously wasn't asleep enough and it woke her and she erupted again!

Today she woke hungry and took 5oz which is good for her. I waited an hour and gave her porridge with the remaining 2oz and then decided to give no more solids for the day, just milk. All other feeds have been bitty and a fight. I obviously don't want to create a snacking habit either I just don't know what to do? Every time she has seen myself or my husband eat she has been rooting for food, in the end before bed she would only take 2oz so I made porridge with 2oz and she was dribbling at the sight of the bowl! Hopefully that will get her through to a deep sleep to give her the rest of the bottle as a dream feed to the sustain her before the dream feed!

As for the getting to bed, for the past two nights I've put her down awake, put the bunny in her hands and my hands on top to keep them from reaching out for me (sob!) and to teach her that bunny is who she should hold (sob! Why is that so hard??!!) and patted slowly until her breathing has slowed and then rolled her onto her back. So far, so good. Does that sound right? Am I not creating more props in doing this?

Thanks so much for all your help, god this is hard!!!

[Shiv52]

As for the getting to bed, for the past two nights I've put her down awake, put the bunny in her hands and my hands on top to keep them from reaching out for me (sob!) and to teach her that bunny is who she should hold (sob! Why is that so hard??!!) and patted slowly until her breathing has slowed and then rolled her onto her back. So far, so good. Does that sound right? Am I not creating more props in doing this

Hugs xx

My Dd1 did this. She always wanted to rub our arms or hold on. I did let her for a bit and then moved a bit so she did the rest herself and got to sleep. I think what you're doing sounds a good compromise between providing the physical touch she likes and is used to settling with but it's less of a prop as it's you touching her so as she gets better at going to sleep herself you can fade back.

How did last night go?

[Hollie-Mae]

Thank you, I'm finding it really hard but she's taking it all in her stride!! She went down really easily last night and giving her porridge helped to keep her asleep long enough for me to give her the rest of her milk as a dream feed. She was then obviously not very hungry for the actual dream feed as wasn't really sucking, and when I took the bottle from her mouth she stirred but this was enough to get her sucking and she took 4oz, I then used dummy, bunny and patting to get her back into a deep sleep.

Milk is still such an issue, I just don't know how to get round it. She only took 3oz at 7.30, I waited an hour and decided to re-offer milk instead of solids but she refused, so I thought I'd not give her any solids in the hope she'd take a full bottle at the next feed, but she's just had it and again she will only take 3oz. She woke after 45mins first nap too which is a recurring issue at the moment, after 2.45 A time (was winging at 2 hours 15 mins but I held her out to her normal A time, perhaps it's GS and she's OT?) I wonder if the lack of milk is waking her, but then you'd think she'd take more milk at the next feed?!

She has size 3 fast flow teats which I think are the fastest I can get except variflow which just choke her!!

[Hollie-Mae]

Just to add an update to this with going down for nap- she was really crying an hour before this next nap was due so I'm suspecting perhaps she is going through a GS and maybe I need to go with her for naps for the time being rather than going by the clock? This makes me a little uncomfortable as I like knowing what and when, but seeing as she's only getting half a nap by following the clock my way isn't working anyway! I decided to use APOP and put her down early and she went down with ease. This is what I did-

Cuddle with dummy for probably less than a minute, put in the cot fully awake.
Turned on her side with bunny between her hands, she actually held him this time and only reached out for me once, perhaps she's learning already (sob! But proud mummy!)? I only patted when she wriggled, as if to tell her to calm. I don't shh as this seems to overload her. When not patting I put some pressure on her shoulder to keep her from fiddling with her hand (she likes to take her dummy out then upsetting herself!) and she quickly went to sleep! The whole thing took possibly 4/5 minutes. 

So I'm just hoping this sounds right? Also what am I aiming for, what should be the end goal? Should I be hoping to be able to cuddle for a minute, put her down with dummy and bunny and she falls asleep by herself? Obviously this will take a long time but it would just be helpful to know what I'm aiming to achieve so that I don't make more AP mistakes! Although I can't quite believe how far we've come in just a few bt/naps! Xx

[Shiv52]

You've come a long way! Well done you and your LO!! You should be very proud.

It definately could be a GS.  Maybe follow her lead for a day or two and then we can look at the times and see what she's trying to tell you.

Keep up the good work x

[Hollie-Mae]

Ok so it's been a few days now, I've cut out solids, used size 3 teats and having great success with the new sleep routine, but she still won't take enough milk. I'm getting 25oz in to her on a good day, which often looks like-

7.30- 3oz
11- 7oz
3- 3oz
6.30- 7oz
Df- 5oz

Last night she ended up in bed with me after waking at 00.40 and refusing to settle. Having fussed all through the night with me, I hoped she'd take a full bottle first thing, but she has still only taken 3oz!
My hv has only been able to suggest putting nesquick in her milk (she had cmpa so has neocate cows milk free formula) but I can't see how this can be good for her?! I'm almost at the point of trying but thought I'd post here first just in case anybody has any other suggestions, I really don't know what to do anymore!!!

[Hollie-Mae]

Oh and I'm also reluctant I add nesquick as she's not actually reluctant to drink when hungry enough- thus the spacing of feeds. When she takes a 7oz bottle she has screamed for it early as it's usually after a 3oz bottle so she's got so hungry I've had to feed her early! And she will eat food containing the milk, so I don't think she is disliking the taste, I've never had a problem with her starting to drink, it's just this new issue of drinking it all

[Lolly]

Is she actively teething at the moment? That could be the issue or a big part of it. She had 25oz yesterday which is actually an ok amount of milk for her age (20oz is the minimum they need).

What were the symptoms of her milk intolerance (or is it a true allergy?) - is she/ was she a refluxer?

I would start the solids again, but just once in the morning for now and maybe just be guided by her - feed her when she asks for it for a few days rather than worrying about the routine. You may find that she takes bigger bottles that way.

Laura