4 months nigtime mess

[Alisa masik]

hello
the  Lo in a week will turn 4 months.
we r trying the past week to do the easy scheduler starting from 7 am when the baby is up. every 1:20-30 going to sleep. it was the plan ' during which he has short naps- sometimes 20 min sometimes 40 ' almost never any longer even when i m trying get him back to sleep- it doesn't work.
before we started the easy - at nigh he would sleep: since 7:30-1 am, woke to eat- breastfeed, then woke at 4 - eat and sleep and sometimes awake till 5- then sleep till 7:30-8.
now its really a mess: since 7:30 pm till 10 pm- wakes up to eat,  also for a weak we tried to dream feed around 11:30 and now he wakes at 10 by himself. sleeps till 1- 2 am' : eat. sleep hour- 2 hours- wakes up - pacifier and shhh- sleeps and every 30 min wakes up ...till morning . witch every day is earlier by 30 min- today it was 5:50. final wake.
before the easy - wasn't napping more then 20-40 min but slept at night for 3 hours.  now its a mess- no one sleeps day or night
maybe is the easy by day affects his night?   I'm so tired and so is he.crying all day long.
please help
thanks
Alisa

[Layla]

Hi Alisa,

Hugs for the night wakings! Could you please post what the last 3-4 days have looked like for you? How long is your baby awake for before you put him to nap and if he does take a short nap and you can't resettle, how long do you keep him awake for before the next nap?

4 months is a tough age, there is a big sleep regression as well as growth spurt. Also, if you have to plug in the dummy for him to get to sleep and replug it for him to get back to sleep, the dummy could be the issue.

EASY isn't meant to be a strict schedule and so you don't have to stick to the routine as per book and to the letter.

[Alisa masik]

Hi Layla. 
The last 3-4 days.  Getting better a bit with the easy program.  He wakes up between 5:30-7. Breasted.  Play after 1hr 30 min. I  swaddle him , give him pacifier and lay beside him with ssssh method.  He sleeps for 20-40 min, when he awakes I continue with the shhh sometimes it works, sometimes doesn't not.  Wake up- eat, play , 1hr 30 min: again nap time. The hole proses for 3 times.  Then we go for a long walk after the third nap. Take him in a stroller. After 1-20 he falls a sleep in the stroller for 40 min. Wakes: eat. And from 4-4:30 till 7:30 doesn't sleep. Although he still in a stroller taking a walk till 6. 6:30; bath and eats.  7:30 sleep   , my husband sits with him for 10-15 min with a shhh method. Wakes at 10-11   Eats.  Sleep until 1 - am: eats,  then 3,5,6-7.  Every wake is settled by shhhh and pat for 30 min at least.

 Today first night we tried not to feed him after 11, calm down only by shhhh.no feeding  He woke up at 3 for 40 min of shhhhh.   Then 5,7.
The pacifier : just started to take it since we started easy.  Takes in the begging of the sleep, after 10-15 min spit it out.   So it doesn't seems to be the issue.

Is it ok to stop the breast feeding at night? Only the dream feed. He will be 4 months in a week.  Gaining weight very good.  Around 7.5 kg.

Will be happy to hear your suggestion about e night sleep. 
Thank u

[Layla]

I know some babies do quiet well and sleep through all night with just a DF but mine included didn't and not all are able to

I actually didn't do the DF as I didn't find it very useful with dd1 and so I never really did it with the others either and so with dd3, I always waited for her to wake naturally (which was a stretch of around 4-6hrs after bedtime), then I'd feed her and she would wake up another 1-2 times (at 4 months). She did manage to sleep straight through here and there but most of the time she would wake sometime around midnight and then another feed towards the morning. Sometimes she would wake 3 times at night and I would feed her (especially at this age, where there is a big growth spurt). Towards 6 months, she was able to either sleep straight through (12hrs) or would wake 1-2 times; by 9 months she was sleeping through more and more and only waking once for a feed and then soon after that she started to sleep straight through. So it was a bit of a slow progress for us but I never really pushed for longer than 4-6 hr stretch as in my opinion that was considered as sleeping through 

At 4 months, you can start to transition to 4hr EASY - so awake for 2hrs, eat every 4hrs... although if he's breastfed, he may not be able to last 4hrs in between feeds. We did awake for 2hrs but feed every 3.5hrs until we were around 5 months, when we were able to stretch feeds as well.

I would work on extending daytime sleep - see if you can get him past the 20-40min mark....I think maybe he's in an undertired/overtired loop... so he's awake for long enough to be tired but not long enough to want to sleep more than just one sleep cycle (past 40-45mins). Maybe you could try an extra 10-15mins over a couple of days to see if he will want to sleep longer...

Also I would do an earlier bedtime... I think he's awake for too long before bedtime. Sometime around 3-4 months, babies start to grow out of the 4th nap (the 4-3 nap transition) and with us, it meant adding a little more A before the other naps so that last stretch wasn't so long (which goes hand in hand with what I mentioned before about transitioning to 4hr EASY). Try working on a 12hr day and you might find he'll sleep better at night, especially towards the end of his night sleep/early morning sleep, where he's up every hour to two hours. So in your case, if he's awake from his last nap at 4.30pm, I would personally do bedtime at 6.30pm.

Be careful with using the paci too much... it might end up being a prop and he doesn't need to suck on it to self settle.... with shh/pat, he will find a way to calm himself. But if you don't see if being an issue and he spits it out and doesn't need it to get back to sleep, then it should be ok!

Let me know how you go

[Alisa masik]

Thank you again.  I didn't understand about the night feeding , when should I feed him ? After the dream feed? At 3 ? 5 ? Or not too.  Is he up so frequently cause he is hungry?
It wasn't like that, he used to sleep 3-4 hours at night.  Today it was every 2 hours all night long till finally got up at 5:30.  I read that babies at 4 months can last all night long after the dream feed. 

About the napping;I'm trying to prolong it but sometimes it doesn't work. Most of the times it's 20-40 min.  I will try to early the bd time hour yo 6:30-7.  But won't that make him get up even earlier then 5:30???

Ok yesterday put him down for night time at 6:30. , today he was up at 5:45.  No luck in shhhh pay to make him sleep. Tried to breast fead also didn't help. He makes it a pattern to wake up at 5:45. It's crazy!
Help please!!      Mis it possible the df has something to do with it?

[Layla]

Sorry about my long winded post! What I was trying to say is that its normal for them to wake at night and a DF doesn't necessarily mean they can sleep from the DF time to wake up time.

In summary, my rule of thumb was to follow the E's at night as they were during the day... so if/when my LO was eating every 3hrs during the day and if she would wake at night and it was 3+hrs, I would feed her. If she was up earlier, I would try and resettle.

I definitely think and earlier bedtime will help you hun. In general, at that age, you would aim for 11-12hrs at night and he's really waking up at 5.30am (even though you'd like him to wake at 7) and so I think bedtime of 6/6.30pm would work well for him for now and then once he's better rested, you can start to push out his day a little and push bedtime with the rest of the day.

So you put him to bed at 6.30pm but he woke for the day at 5:45am... he slept for approx 11hrs? Did he sleep better than other nights or was he still restless towards the morning?

[Alisa masik]

Hi LAyla, the night was also restless as the nights before. He woke at 2, I pat him.  Went to sleep till 3 : I feed him, and the next 2 hours spend trying to make him sleep with shhh pat . 5 he went finally to sleep. Woke at 6:30. Which is not bad , better then 5:30 , but I think that because he didn't sleep for the 2 hours at night.  Today put him to sleep at 6:30. We will see tonight.  I have shorten the hour still bed time : 6:30 instead of 7:30 , so it hurts his final nap   Cause he usually sleeps between 5-6, but now it's not good time cause it very close to the night time so I wasn't insisting on the last nap and he became very tired and kranky for 3 hours since his last nap.  So it all affecting his sleep in some way..

[Florena49]

I can relate to this, so sympathise, we used to have 5+ night wakings and i knew that he wasnt hungry all the time. The only way we managed to improve nights is by sleep training, the day he fell asleep on his own for his naps oir night improved, so we have had good nights( 2 wakings) to eat at 10.30ish and 3ish and up for tw day at 6.30. We had to work on shifting the awake time as LO woke beforw 6 every morning, i jave a thread goong about shifting the routine. Ours are still rubbish ocassionally especially on the days that we are out and about, but we are working on extending with W2s

[Layla]

Sorry hun, i didn't mean to stick to the  6.30pm bedtime no matter what... you mentioned that he takes his 3rd nap from 4-4.30pm and then doesn't sleep afterwards, despite being pushed around in the pram till 6pm.. so in that case, don't keep him up for 3 hrs till bedtime. If he usually has a nap from 5-6 (his last nap), then from when he wakes up, you would put him down no more than 2hrs A time. For example, if he wakes from his last nap at 5:30pm, bedtime would be 7.30pm (not to start routine but in bed and asleep by 7.30pm)

[Alisa masik]

Morning LAyla!
We'll today our night was : went to bed at 6:30  as I said, woke at 22:00 - pet and SSS.  23:00 had a dream feed.  Woke -t 01:00. Shh and pet.   Woke at 3: I breast fead him. Shhh and pet till 4.  Woke finally at 6:15. 
We r going mad , I think I messed my boy completely.  Cause at least he used to sleep at nigh long periods an wake up around 8-9.   Now; all day long I'm trying to make him sleep for a nap. And hw wake s so early.  I really don't know what to do. Cause I keep changing his routine all the time.   Should I still stick to the 6:30 bed time ? Would it eventually help his early wakinings ? Or should I go to 7:30 ? 
Yesterday he naped from 8:20 till 09:00.   And from12:30-14:30 (45 min plus 15 min shhh pat and the rest).  )).  Then at 4:30 tried to put him down for 20 min shhh , with no luck.  He was crying  and upset till 6:30. 

[Florena49]

If u wanted to shift his awake time in the morninh it is possible, it worked for us.

lO used to wake at 5.30/5.45, so this is what the ladies here suggested.

Treat this early waking as night time waking, so try and put him to sleep with shush/pat, say u want his wake up time to be 6.30, u have to shush/pat until 6.30! At 6.30 sneak out of the room then come back straight awake with lights on and a very cheery good morning. Get LO up and start ur day at 6.30.

So 6.30 wu
Next sleep due in say 2 hours so 8.30

Yes u will get the first nap OT but this is the quickest way and as ur hetting short naps anyway thay shouldnt make too much difference.  Is your LO an independent sleeper?

[Alisa masik]

Hi Victoria ,
We r changing so many stuff in his sleep right nigh that I'm already confused   Maybe I did that early mornings with me putting him down to sleep an hour earlier.  I don't know.
We will try that system that u suggested , although he is very awake to do the shh and pat. He is really up
He takes short naps. Indeed.  Today he woke up at six. I tryed to delay his first nap as the forum suggested, put him to sleep at 8:30. He woke after 20 min.
Thank u for your suggestion

[Florena49]

He might not go to sleep at all as you say in the morning, if he is calm u can just leave him and sit quietly in his room and just do shush pat if he cries to calm him, the idea is to signal to him that his day starts at a certain time, say 6.30, not 5am.

Does he fall asleep on his own or does he need your help in any way?

It all sounds exactly like our sleep 3 weeks ago before we started sleep training.

I think you need to decide for yourself what routine you want him to have so say 6-6 or 6.30-6.30 and work towards that. If he woke at 6 today and you are happy for this to be his awake time than I would just go with it.

So 6am wake up
Nap due 8.00am


Or whatever is your A time is now?

[Alisa masik]

Hi Victoria
He doesn't sleep by himself. We use shh and pat. He will be in a week 4 months old.  Is it too early to start teaching him to sleep by himself. ?   I want him to sleep at least till 7 , 8 it's too much to ask right ?
When he wakes up he is not calm. He wants us to pick him up and crying. So I can't imagine doing shh and pat for an hour when he is crying.

[Florena49]

Our LO is 19 weeks so we started 3 weeks ago, we were planning to do pick up/ put down, but i found that actually we were always able to calm him down in the cotbed without getting him out. Within a week he was able to fall asleep with a little shush and pat, and we relaxed a little. Last week we took the plunge and started withdrawing shush pat and giving LO an opportunity to fall asleep himself. He very quickly found his fingers and used them to self soothe when he was very upset. First few days were difficult there was a lot of crying.
We would do the wind down before bed put him into the cotbed if he cried i would come up and shush and pat as soon as he is calmer i would say sweet dreams and walk away from the cot, i cant rember how long it went on for the first time, but in the end he fell asleep sucking on his fingers. We did the same thing for all his naps and that night he only woke up twice to eat! To be honest i couldnt believe it, i see now that he simply a great sleeper and it didnt help that he needed us to fall asleep.
So I would say you te doing great with shush/ pat, but do start withdrawing it, so doing less and less of it.