4 months nigtime mess

[Layla]

Yesterday he naped from 8:20 till 09:00.   And from12:30-14:30 (45 min plus 15 min shhh pat and the rest).  )).  Then at 4:30 tried to put him down for 20 min shhh , with no luck.  He was crying  and upset till 6:30.

Am I right in that he slept till 9am and then awake until 12.30am? Are you following A times or cues? At 4 months, I would probably look at no more than 2hrs A and 3.5hrs is quiet a long time for him.

I agree that it would be a good idea to try and stay in the dark room until your wake up time but a lot of babies are wired to be awake between 6-7 naturally, in my opinion.

Are you shh/patting him to sleep? I started off doing shh/pat until mine was asleep but then over time took myself away from the picture and would shh/pat till she was sleepy but not asleep until I could lay her down and she'd go to sleep on her own. I don't think 4months is too young to start sleep training. I started with dd3 when she was just 6 weeks old but we did a very loose version of it and there were no expectations

[Alisa masik]

hi
well it havent really changed except now im trying to implementing your suggestions about the early wake- so we ssh and pat at 5:30 and he somehow manage to pul it till 7 - 7:30. but the nights are continue to be horrible. he wakes at 10,1,3,5. from 5-7 he wakes every 10 min. so we doing sshh and pat all the time. also at 1 when he wakes up we doing the ssh and pat about 45 min.
i was thinking - if we starting to do the pu/pd at night, will it maybe change his wakings?  at th e evenings and some of the naps i do sss and pat for 5 min and leave him to fall asleep on his own. also i understood that u cant do PU/PD when the baby is happy and bubbling to him self in th e middle of the night, right? he can be like that for 40 min , not sleeping. so should i change the ssh and patt to PU/PD  although at the evenings he falls asleep almost by himself ? and some naps too.
i tryied implementing PU/PD at one short nap today- always 30 min nap in the morning, tried for 40 min he cried non stop and then it was time to feed so we stopped. so i didnt see it working.
thank you

[Layla]

If he's happy you can't really be doing shh/pat or pu/pd, there is no point and it won't work. Actually extending naps with pu/pd never really worked for us either and if mine was awake from a short nap and just playing, I would leave her in the cot for another 15mins or so and then get her up. Extending naps can be tricky, especially at this age, where short naps can be developmental.

Could you post what the last couple of days have looked like?

[Alisa masik]

Hi.  We'll every day wakes around 5:30.
S: 5:30-7:15.  Today it was :5:30-6:20
E: 7:30-8
A:7:30-900
S:900-9:20
A:  9:20-11:30 E:10:30
S: 12-14
A:14-16. E:14:00
S:16-16:30
E:1700. Short
S:18:30 e : 1800
Prolong short naps;
Tried to wake him after 25 min and shh pat again for an hour: he fell asleep for 5 min  that's it.
Yesterday tried PuPd on a short nap: cried for 45 min each time.  Morning and afternoon

So the short naps r impossible to prolong.  But he has a good nap at noon 2 hours.  So he can sleep long.  Why other times it is so impossible?

[Layla]

He wakes around 5.30 and then does he go back to sleep from 5.30-7.15? or 6.20 (today)?

Then I noticed he only slept for 20mins in the morning and was then awake for 2.5hrs, where he did a longer nap and then had a 30min catnap.... the last S (6.30pm), was that going to be your bedtime? why did you try and wake him up after 25mins and shh/pat again for an hour?

Short naps aren't completely impossible to extend... it can be tricky for some babies as the part of the brain that is responsible for daytime sleep hasn't completely developed yet

Did you feed him at all for any of those night wakings he had last night?

[Alisa masik]

Hi LAyla. 
He Akers at 5:40 and then we shh him til 7-15.  Today was 6:30.
Tried to wake him in his short naps after 25 min cause he wakes up after 30 min each time.  Didn't help to prolong the sleep. For an hour cause I read that the nap suppose to be an 1.30 so he slept only 30 min so the rest of the hour I should try to make him sleep again.  No?? Should I stop before? When ?
At night: we have stop dream feed cause it doesn't seem to help.   So I only feed him once around 2:30-3 and then he is awake for an hour. Happy bubbling. We r trying to shhh him. Doesn't really work only after an hour he is going back to sleep
We waited him and he is gains weight  even more than he should.  He is beyond average.
Do u think I need to feed him more at nigh? Although 3 weeks ago he was eating 2-3 at nigh and still wakes up a lot

[Layla]

I would feed him again at the 5ish am wake up, its ok for him to have up to 3 night feeds, he's still only little and I personally don't think the weight has much to do with whether he can sleep through or not. If he's up and happy, you don't need to do shh/pat, let him practice putting himself back to sleep, if you know what I mean.

How often is he eating during the day now?

Are you attempting wake to sleep at 25mins? Wake to sleep is about stirring the baby and not actually waking him up. So you could try gently stroking his cheek but I don't think it will work if the A times are too long/too short. A nap 1.5hrs is considered to be restorative but I would only have tired another 30mins to extend a nap if it was 30mins long because I just didn't see the point in shh/patting up to another hour, just me though. Some people do the nap extension for the length of the nap.

[Alisa masik]

During the day he eats every 3 hours.  So u saying to feed him twice at night?  At 5 am and 2-3 ?  And then. At 7:30 ?  I thought maybe with time to drop the feeding so he will be able to sleep longer no .? So he won't be depended on food

[Layla]

Try and stretch his feeds to 3.5hrs, he may take more in and reduce night wakings. Yes, I would do a feed at 2-3am (both sides) and you could do one side at 5am and offer the other side at 7.30am and then you could count the 3.5hrs from 7.30am.

I still think he's awake for too long some periods.... if he's only had a 30min nap in the morning, he should really be going down within 2hrs (even less at this age) for the next nap.

[Alisa masik]

I will try that.  I'm despered    In the morning we used to have 1:20 before the nap and then 1:30,1:45,2.  In all variations he still napping only 30 min,   In the morning he doesn't seem tired at all.  I can't seem to change it.

[Florena49]

Hi

I think u need to stick with whatever your doing, have a plan and do it for a few days, if u keep changing it will just be confusing for your LO

So say your LO is 4 month by now so ur routine could look something like this

WU 5.30 eat
7.30 sleep
9 eat
 Etc

So 2hours A time and eating every 3.5 hours. And observe how LO is for the next few days.

[Alisa masik]

Hi.  Trying to extend his feed time to 3:30.   This night we feed at 1 and 5. He haven't gone to sleep till 7:30. When we finally got him up.  All this time tried to sshh and pat him.
Maybe should I go back to putting him down to sleep at 7:30-7 at nigh ? Instead of 6:30 ? Pm  Maybe it will prolong or just stick yo the routine we have?

[Florena49]

Thats absolutely normal 2 feeds in the night at this age. 
Can u post your EASY, what are u aiming for?
What time do u want to start the day?and what time does LO actually wake? I would really stick to the same routine for a week or so otherwise your LO never hets a chance to adjust

[Layla]

If he was sleeping better with a later bedtime, then yes, go back to your old bedtime. Babies generally do better on 11-12hrs of sleep at night and in your earlier posts, you said he woke at 5.30am and so an earlier bedtime was my suggestion, to help him not be awake for over 2hrs before bedtime, which is too long for his age.

How are you doing shh/pat?

[Alisa masik]

Way it's a horrible circle. U right about the early bed time it works good at the evening cause his last nap of 30 min is at 4-4:30.  So by the time it's 7:30 it's very late for him and he is so cranky.  But we can't continue waking up at 5:30.  It's crazy.  So maybe to try again to move back at 7:30 bedtime???
Tonight he woke at 1,3,5 .ate at 1 and 5.  Since 5 till now 7:30. He is up. Only now took him from the crib.  All this time tried to get him back to sleep, leave him for a wile to bubble but he begins to cry so agin try to shh and patt.
I swaddle him in a blanket give him a paci. Tap him on the back and making sound of shhh. In the back round we have rain noise on the iPad to help with noise.