Anyone want to talk about the 2-1 transition #26

[Kellyjs]

Oh no! I get that with O too.. I'm just not sure if she's UT or OT! It's just so difficult to tell. That will be getting annoying trying to ap a nap all the time. Your boys don't take kindly to an EBT do they? Otherwise I'd say let them refuse it! That's what O did for around 4days on the trot and I just gave up. ((Hugs))

[babybarr]

Your boys don't take kindly to an EBT do they?

They would but I can't get them down on my own so have to wait for dh to get home... so I don't have a choice.

[Kellyjs]

I can only imagine Laura. One is hard work here, never mind double trouble! And you have another boy too don't you? Again, ((hugs))!

[debo620]

Joining in,
dd had her first one nap day today XX fingers crossed for an ok night...
 
yesterday I forced a catnap but it was much too late I think because we had some NW..
so today was:
wake 7:45
nap 11:45-1:45
offered catnap at 5:30 but she played and then started complaining by 6:15, up then, out for a walk and home at 7 to start bedtime..in bed by 7:35 but she isn't sleeping yet, so not to sure what to make of that..OT?

with my boys, I did the short am nap/long pm nap combo but they were earlier wakers,up by 5:30/6 so they had a 30 min am nap at 10 and long nap at 1:30 and it worked ok..

[MarciaMSPT]

LO is feeling much better... seems upper teeth come in in combo's and a lower tooth just before that.  Yesterday he crawled a few "steps" for the first time.  Very grumpy and moody lately... suspecting the onset of a wonder week. 

Doing one long nap at noon for now... sleeps 1.5 to 2.0+ hours.  I put him in the car for a 10 min power nap around 4:30 or 5:00 just to get him to his BT of 8 since EBT does not work in this house for him. 

If I'm out on errands for the day, I try to leave around 10:30 and he's out for 30-40 min and then I try to leave for home around 3 and he crashes for 1+ hours.  Takes me an hour to get anywhere anyway...so I just accommodate the nap as needed but no later than 4:30ish - mostly cause I can only drive for so long!

My little guy is growing up!  Wow!  Copied almost every thing I did yesterday, including blowing kisses... amazing...

As far as UT or OT, I'm just figuring that if one nap is short, the next one needs to be long and for me I have the flexibility to APOP in the car if needed to manipulate when he sleeps. 

He's sleeping through the night again for the last several nights... teething most probably was the culprit. 

[Kellyjs]

Hi Deborah! Welcome to the thread. How did your night go? I get that with O atm, not falling asleep for 20+ mins on a one nap day. No advice here, but if you figure out if it's UT or OT let me know!

So glad to hear your LO is feeling better Marcia. And that's soooo cute about blowing kisses.  . Sounds like it's all going great for you.  I have to do the split nap thing in the car with O too when we go out and see friends. Takes me an hour to get there, so I just time it around the same as you too. Best I can hope for is 2x 40 mins naps or so then hope she's tired enough for a reasonable BT.

We've had a funny couple of days. Thinking it may be OT from the wknd catching up with her. Yesterday shot for a one nap after she had 11.5hr night and she gave me a nap of 1hr! UT perhaps? That was at 5.5hrs A though. Wouldn't go back to sleep, she was obviously still tired as she woke crying and never does that. Tried her out in the buggy to APOP another nap, this child is immune to AP! Had her in bed for 5.50pm. Sleep at 6. Wu at 5.10am so didn't tack on the lost sleep for a change. Happily played around in her cot until 6.15am. Had to go out to do some shopping and she fell asleep in the car at 8.45am, woke her after 20mins and just put her down at 1pm. We can't usually do the short am, long pm naps as we normally get 2 short ones instead so I'm not holding out for a long one now.  . I just need to get back to a reasonable wu again to go back to the one nap. Mind you, this is the first 2 nap day we've had in a while so it's not going to badly really I suppose.

Xx

[MarciaMSPT]

So... have a question... my LO is almost 12 months and his wu time is 7am.  He is usually in a light sleep at that time or awake and smiling.  The morning generally goes smooth until anytime between 9:30 and 10:30 had gets very fussy and grumpy.  I have resorted to putting him in my backpack and walking with him at 10:30 for about 45 min. 

My question is this - about 10ish I see him rubbing his eyes... don't want to mess him up with what we have established but am wondering if I should put him down then instead of trying to power him through till 12. 

I am now giving him more of a snack before he goes down (instead of trying for 1/2 lunch before and 1/2 after nap - doesn't work!) in hopes that when he wakes up we can have a good meal... but he seems to be very picky about eating lately...  and I admit, I'm not the greatest cook or meal planner.

Any thoughts on all that?  Not even sure it made sense but thought I would ramble it out there!

[Kellyjs]

Of course it makes sense! Maybe us mummy's just know?!

O gets very grumpy around the 3.5hr mark too, it's even worse if she's had a great night sleep. I just power through. Actually I've used your tip about going outside at that time to distract her. Luckily it's getting warmer here now, don't fancy doing that in winter! I've read lots of other posts about this and it is a case of soldiering on through the grumpy patches. I find when I have put O down early, she does a rubbish UT 45mins nap and it messes up the rest of the day. But yours may be different. It's really up to you hun and what you think will be best?  Personally it sounds like your routine is working well... Problem might be if you out him down at 2.5hr after wu you may start to get EW??

Re the eating... I've got issues there too as I'm not the type if person who can throw open the cupboard and make something amazing!! If O is being a bit fussy I go back to the old Annabel Karmel recipes I know she loves for a couple of days then try something new after. She was going through a stage of putting the spoon in her mouth, then opening it back up again to let it all fall out?! Could be the texture or something.. Who knows?! Could be the teething why your LO is being fussy atm?

I believe Annabel Karmel has a toddler meal planner book and I'm going to look into getting that to help me along. I do like a step-by-step guide iykwim?

Hth xx

[debo620]

Our night was ok, a few cry outs in the evening though so Im assuming that she was OT...but the night was ok and then wake up of 7:30, so nap at 11:40...
will see how long it lasts and then hoping to squeeze in a catnap..

julia also gets quite fussy at the 3hr/3.5hr mark most days but if I put her down then she has a 35-45 min UT nap and I can never figure out the next A time either after that.

I'm not quite sure what to do with lunch and today my older son had an activity so I couldn't do an early lunch but she did have a breast feed and Ill do lunch afterwards.

[BusterB]

Hiya ladies...

I wondered if I could please ask if anyone approaching he 2-1 has experienced anything this... My son is almost 10 months and for a while now we've been doing a long AM nap (1hr20) & short PM nap (30m).... This was going pretty well until the last week or so, when getting my son down at bedtime has become REALLY tough - which is not like him at all!

I have always breastfed to sleep, but now he is WIDE awake the whole time & it takes me three times as long feeding before he finally sleeps and then he is falling asleep but waking after 30-40m and screaming until I put him back on the boob!! After this comfort feed though, he is sleeping through until morning!

Does this sound like it is 2-1 related??

I ask as in the last 2 weeks he has had a virus and is about to get his first tooth - so I wanted to rule those out as the cause too!

Would love to hear your opinions!

[MarciaMSPT]

We have had a couple times where our LO had a rough time going down for bed.  Without posting your EASY it's hard to say... if you posted your EASY... might get some good thoughts!

Possibly a growth spurt... my LO never seems to have growth spurts "on time."  Always early or late...

His 30-45 min wu's may be OT or UT - again, posting your EASY will be helpful.  It could be that it's UT as being awake for longer (even breastfeeding) is getting him to the tired mark - but could be hunger...

Hope those suggestions are noteworthy.

Yes, Kelly - outside is the key here!  We have a lot of rain lately though... no worries... I just put him in my back pack grab the umbrella and go!  He's on the verge of crawling or walking... can't tell which... and just wants to be close to me all the time...  No worries... I won't be putting him down early just because he yawns... I think I would also get a 45 min UT nap... when I can hold out till 12, he sleeps up to 2.5 hours like to today!  It was delicious!

I started adding nut milk to his bottle since our breastmilk donor will be seeing him only through the first year and that is in a week and a half... so working on weaning him somewhat or at least switching him over.  Any suggestions?

Less grumpy today though... (maybe cause dad was home today!)  I also spent a lot more time on the floor with him and kept him close to me much more.  Still working on training him to spend time in the pack and play (playpen) for times when I must contain him to bring the groceries in etc.

[Kellyjs]

Hi Busterb,

Yep, we had the BT shenanigans. Agreeing with Marcia though.. Could you post your easy to see what his A time is like? Do you think he needs the extra bf's to go down or is it just because you're trying to get him to sleep dyk? Does he feed well during the day? Waking earlier in the night is a symptom of OT and/or teeth related here. Have you tried medicating before BT?

When we had the messing about at BT I chopped the CN to 20 mins but increased the first A to get a slightly longer nap, but without seeing your easy, I might be leading you down the wrong path! Don't want to worsen it if it is OT.

Marcia- amazing nap! We haven't had a 2-hr one for a while. I'm going to push through and start doing a set nap and BT now me thinks. The two- nap thing just doesn't work for us anymore.

I've never heard of nut milk! I forgot you had donor BM. That's so cool. The recommendations here is that we can start introducing whole milk from 1yr. Do you think that's something you could try? Of else, might be worth posting on the bottle feeding forum for advice about what's recommended in your part of the world? I'll try and edit this post to send you a link.

http://www.healthystart.nhs.uk/food-and-health-tips/milk/

Does sound like your LO is working on something if he's a bit more clingy than usual eh? Xx

[BusterB]

Thanks so much for taking a look at this ladies - my gut says NW is UT and I need to cut the CN to 20m, but don't want to make things worse so would love 2nd opinions... I have attempted to wake him at the 20min mark the last couple of days, but he sleeps on through to the 30m, so I doubted myself and wondered if he actually needed that extra 10m?

He is 10 months this week and this is roughly what the last few days have looked like - he has been recovering from his virus, so A times have dipped slightly and I haven't capped any of his morning naps as he needed the sleep;

w/u between 7:10-7:30

1st A - 3hr35 (this was closer to 4hrs before his virus - but he is pretty desperate for his bed at this point at the moment)
Nap 1 - 1hr20

2nd A - 3hr15/30
Nap 2 - 30m

3rd A - 4hr15

BT - between 8:15-9pm (as couldnt get him down any sooner!)

NW - after 40 mins & awake for 40 mins, then he is down for the night.

This is pretty different from a few weeks ago where the 1st two A times were closer to 4 hours and the last one was 3hr45m and he went to sleep no problems.

Something is obviously shifting routine wise and i'd like to work with his natural cycle, not against him with whatever I do!

I'm 99% sure this is nothing to do with pain, as he tends to wake frequently in the night when it is and at the moment, he is out for the count after that first wake up 

Oh and I should mention he is LSN and rarely does longer than 10/10.5 hours a night... also for this reason I want to keep the bedtime on the later side (8pm onwards)

[BusterB]

Do you think he needs the extra bf's to go down or is it just because you're trying to get him to sleep dyk? Does he feed well during the day?

Just to answer this... we were on a 4.5 hr EASY before his virus, but during that I fed him A LOT more. Now he is better, he has started asking for more feeds in the day generally - which is absolutely fine by me, am very happy to feed him on demand however I don't think he needs the extra feed after his BT one, it definitely feels like a comfort one and not a proper feed.

My guess is that he is not quite tired enough after the first feed, to get past one sleep cycle and is waking and needing the boob to comfort himself back to sleep....... i'm just struggling to keep him awake longer in the morning OR cut his CN! So feeling a bit stuck!

[Kellyjs]

If he's eating a lot more during the day, as you say, I doubt he needs the extra ones after BT. Glad we've made sure on that one!!

I'm thinking as he's stating to get better he needs to go back to his previous A's soon then. How do you feel about starting to up that first A another 15 mins for a few days then hold and see how long he naps for? I'm thinking you'll need to increase again at some point, but a little at a time is probably best if he's still recovering. Wdyk? I would leave that first nap uncapped then try for a CN at the same A you did previously and shorten to 20mins. When we were doing this we had 4.5hr A first thing for 1.5hr nap, 3.5 for 20mins CN then 2.75hrs to BT. Mine always has liked a monster first A though! He might get a bit grumpy at the time he usually goes down, but push through and do some low-key stuff. Marcia walks hers around outside in a backpack... I've just started doing this but I'm holding her.. Good for the arm muscles/bingo wings I suppose 

You will find the days will be closer to 14hrs this point which obviously works with your lo's LSN. The idea is to push that first A out gradually and hope for a 2hr ish nap. You might find when you get there that his nights lengthen for a while too, well it did here, but now we're going back to 10.5 when we've had two naps recently, 11-12 night sleep on one nap but not always the case 

As the time has already passed for the am one, do you want to try and cut the CN this pm and see if that makes a difference first at BT today? You might be able to hold as is for a few days? Miracles have happened! Xx