No routine for my 4.5mo & he wakes 45min into his night sleep?

[3lilmonkeys]

Hi everyone

I posted in the EASY forum but I'm not getting any replies so I thought here might be better.

I'm new here but used to visit often when my DD (now 9!!) was a baby. I didn't have to visit with my DS.. He was an angel baby and has always been able to sleep for England 

When I found out I was pg with #3 (BIG surprise) I thought he would be just like DS1, but unfortunately not! He's very touchy with a side of textbook.

He's now 4.5 months and we're having big issues with sleep. He takes a long time to settle, especially at night. Then once he's down, he wakes again after 45mins  . The only way to get him back to sleep (without it taking 2 hours) is to feed him. PU/PD and pat/ssh just won't work (plus I have the other two to look after). So it's like an early night waking. I've never heard of this before. Has anyone else here experienced it and is there a cure?! Then through the night he usually wakes between 10.30pm-12am for a feed, then again around 3-4am, then 5am, then up for the day anytime between 6.30am-8am.

Last night he went down at 6.45pm, then woke at 7.30pm, 10.30pm, 2.30am and then WOULDN'T GO BACK TO SLEEP until 4.30am  I'm sooo tired today it isn't even funny.

He has 40 min naps but sometimes these are 2+ hours. I love those days but unfortunately they don't happen often enough. So he'll have 4-5 short naps through the day (and I always try to extend at least one of them) OR 1 long nap + 2-3 short ones. Bedtime is between 6.30-7.30pm after a bath.

His A time is 1.5-2 hours and he has a BF every 4 hours. He's on 2-3 x solids (I thought it might help with the night wakings) and he eats really well.

It's hard for me to post an example of our routine other than the above since it's completely different every single day!

Any advice is GREATLY appreciated!!!

[Layla]

Hi and welcome back

I am about to step out but will come back in a couple of hours with a reply, I promise!

[3lilmonkeys]

Thank you Layla! 

[Layla]

Sorry, I got caught up doing some things when I got back.

Firstly, big hugs to you... but a couple of things stood out to me and probably the first thing I would suggest is to cut out all the solids. It's a bit of a myth that feeding solids will help babies sleep longer and milk is all that he needs. He could also be waking up from discomfort. If you're breastfeeding though, he will probably do better if he's fed every 3-3.5hrs? We didn't manage to get to 4hrly feeds until we were around 5+ months.

I would also look at stretching his A's to 2hrs and you may find he will sleep longer during the day. By 4.5months, we transitioned out of the 4th catnap and were on 3 naps. The morning nap was 1.5hrs long but the rest were still only 45mins long but still, rather than doing another catnap, we went for an earlier bedtime, depending on when the 3rd nap would end. You mentioned he takes a long time to settle... that may be a sign that he needs more A and isn't tired enough when you're attempting to give him a nap.

Would you say he's an independent sleeper or does he need your help to get to sleep?

I do remember dd3 also treating night time like a short catnap and eventually it was something she grew out of ... but it also coincided with us needing to tweak her routine . I also started working towards set nap times around 5 months and I found starting the day around the same time helped us with that too as she got used to taking naps around the same time every day.

I know you mentioned you don't have a set routine but would you be able to post what the last couple of days have looked like?

[3lilmonkeys]

Thanks Layla, I will cut down (or out) the solids, I just thought I read somewhere that if you start feeding a baby solids you shouldn't then stop again? He definitely likes eating so I might keep lunch in there. That's all he had yesterday. My other 2 started solids at 4 months too and have no allergies or effects from starting early.

Before I started solids I noticed that he really wasn't hungry at the 3 hour mark, he wouldn't take a full feed, just snacks and gets very distracted. If we wait until 4 hours he is interested in sucking and definitely has a better feed.

He falls asleep independently, most of the time with a dummy, but when he spits it out he doesn't wake up or look for it. We've got a camera monitor so I can see 

I think he's definitely ready for 3 naps per day now and I'm happy with earlier bedtime. I will try my best to make one of them longer. So I should still make him have 2 hours A time even if he's only napping for 45 mins (and this should encourage him to nap longer)?

What happened when your LO dropped to 2 naps? Was one long and one a catnap?

The last 2 days looked like this...

TUES
E 7.30am
A
S 9.00am (woke after 20 mins & I resettled him for another 40mins)
E 10.00am
A
S 12.00pm (we got a 2 hour nap - yay)
E 2.00pm BF then solids
A
S 4.15pm
E 5.00pm
A
S 6.45pm
E 7.30pm then straight back to sleep

MON (before we cut back on the solids)
E 6.30am BF. Solids an hour later.
A
S 8.30am (45 mins. I tried to resettle for 1/2 hour - didn't work)
A 9.15am
E 10.00am BF. Solids an hour later.
A
S 11.15am (45 mins. I tried to resettle for 1/2 hour - didn't work)
A 12.00pm
E 2.00pm BF
S 2.15pm (45 mins)
A 3.00pm
S 4.45pm (45 mins)
E 5.30pm BF. Solids 1/2 hr later.
A
S 6.45pm (he was sooo tired)
E 7.30pm then straight back to sleep
E 10.30pm - This isn't a dreamfeed. He wakes for it on his own. He'll then have at least 2 more BF in the night.

Thanks again 

[Layla]

I am not sure where you read once they start solids, one shouldn't stop... I just wonder if the solids are causing him discomfort. We started solids with dd3 around 5.5-6 months but we only had one teaspoon or so for breakfast and nothing else for the rest of the day except for breast milk. We only moved onto 3 meals around 9 months.

With regards to naps, yes, I would work on extending his A to at least 2 hrs. Try your best (and I know this will be hard with other kids around) to extend at least the morning and/or afternoon (or both if possible) naps so that you are down to 2x1.5hr naps and a catnap, which is ideal for this age. We were only doing 1x1.5hr morning nap and 2 catnaps at that age but by 5 months we were working towards 2 naps and when we finished with the 3-2 nap transition (by 5.5months), she took 2x1.5hr naps. She did that for a couple of months and by around 8 months or so, we were shortening the morning nap to 1hr so that she would take longer afternoon nap and continued to do that and still shortening her morning nap now (to 45mins).

If he only does 45mins, you could try 1.75hrs A but probably not much shorter than that because you don't want the rest of the day thrown off... having said that, some babies can do full A time on just 45min nap (mine was like that!) but don't overdo it... if you see he's getting tired around 1.75hrs A, put him down them. The longer A will hopefully help him sleep (or you resettle) past 45mins.

See how you go over the next 3-4 days with longer A's and let me know. Try and take him out of the house, lots of distraction and as you get closer to nap time, you could try a longer wind down routine so that he's nice and sleepy and not over stimulated!