Nap/BT refusal 18 month SR?

[jcsmom]

I'm baaaaack! My DD turns 18 months on the 21st and sleep this week (well her whole life, actually) has been the pits. She is fighting bedtime (chatting, yelling NO! and practising all of animal sounds.) Today was her first nap refusal so we did a 30 minute car nap. Is this the 18 month SR and what do I do about it? Here is our routine:

wu 6:15-7 (but since the time change here in Canada it has been 7:10 or later)
nap 1-2:30 but can often only be an hour 2 times a week can be 2
bedtime I put down at 4.5 A as she morning A is often 6. She fights bedtime like crazy and I cannot seem to get bedtime right. I try a 12 hour day on a 1 hour nap and a 12.5 hour day on a 1.5 hour nap. Longer naps always mean bedtime battles.

She is a short napper and needs to be really tired to have a good nap. Our 2 hour naps often come after and EMW so her morning A is really long like 6.5-7. Crazy I know but she is a sleep enigma. She will also pull 11.75-12 hour nights and then short nap 45-60 mins. If her nap is longer than about 75 mins then bedtime is a battle. She doesn't show signs of being OT, she is happy go lucky but is fighting sleep like the ens. Here was yesterday:

wu 7:10 ish (after an 11.25 hour night and a 1.5 hour nap previously, no NWs) but out of crib at 7:30. I often don't know what time she wakes as she can be super quiet. If I watch the monitor I can't tell if she is sleeping or not as she often is restless for 30 mins before waking but eyes are closed.
nap 1:10-2:30 (put down at 1) woke when our power went off and her white noise machine turned off
bed 7:15 but did not fall asleep until NINE PM She was yelling NO! NO! NO! and just would not go down

wu 7:10 or so again not sure got her up at 7:30
nap in crib at 1, but 1:45 I could tell she wasn't go to go off so I got her up and took her for a car nap. She slept 30 mins. from 2-2:30. Woke when I pulled into drvieway. I will do an EBT but I hate to do them as too much night sleep means a short nap for her. Is she just wickedly OT and I am missing it? I think she gets about 13 hours of sleep in 24 but lately it has been more like 12.5-12.75.

[jcsmom]

Shameless bump!
Last night she took ages to fall asleep and was finally out at 7:10ish. SHe did sttn until about 7:05. She did stir at 6:25, 6:45 and 6:55 but kept on sleeping. The only way I would know this is from watching the monitor. I put her down at her usual 1pm nap and she was crying NO!NO! Even before I put her down. Then she screamed off and on while I did wi/wo until 1:40 then slept 55 mins. 

I am kind of at a loss what I need to do? Shall I move her nap time back to 12:30 or even earlier on the premise that she is majorly OT? At 1pm before DST we were getting at least 1 hour naps mostly 1 hour 20-30 (which are good for her). I also feel like since she is sleeping so well at night she might not be that OT. But an hour in the day and 11.5-12 at night does not seem like enough sleep all of a sudden.

[weaver]

So, her WU time has moved up by an hour.  Have you moved her naptime up too, or was it always around 1?  If so, that might be what's going on, she's waking up later and isn't ready for the nap then. 

Also, with the 18 mo SR, it's perfectly normal for LOs to take a long time to fall asleep in the day and in the evening.  Even my sleep-loving LO1 did this, and we just had to ride it out. There was no fix, I'm sorry to say!  If you can find a way for her to go to bed in a gentle manner, so that she'll stay there happily enough, even talking to herself, that would probably be the way to go.

Just to clarify on naps though: has she ever done a regular 2 hour nap during the day?  As you say, her nights are looking good, for now, so I wouldn't panic.

[jcsmom]

I moved her nap back to match her wu time but wu is gradually moving back. It seems now for whatever reason she is not ready after 6 hours A which I find hard to believe. I think we have hit some OT and I can't quite figure it out. Last night was NOT good.
Yesterday looked like this:
wu 7 or so (so quiet)
nap down at 1 but screamed and carried on until 1:40 then slept 55 mins (OT nap?)
bed 7:15 and she chatted for ages then it turned to crying and finally asleep at 8
wu 6:45 but quiet until I got her at 7.

So not a great night ater a short nap. But she seems to do a long night long nap followed by a short night short nap or the other way around. I am still not sure 18 months in what her sleep needs are. I asked my mom to put her down after 5.5 A in case the chatting is really OT and not UT.

She has never been a long napper. We get about 2 or 3 2 hour naps a month and about 2-3 1.5 hour naps a week. The rest are in the 45-75 minute range. But for the most part her nights are at least 11 hours and up to 11.75.

[weaver]

Do you think she's Low Sleep Needs?  I will ask around and get some LSN experienced folks to have a look.  To me, 55 minutes is too long to be an OT nap. It might be just what she needed??

Did she sleep through after going to sleep at 8? No WUs?  In that case, I'd say it's actually a pretty good night, shorter than you'd like, but good enough.  Even my LO1, who adores his sleep, had nights when he didn't drop off til 8.30 or even 9 pm!  (I was freaking out a little!)  As I said above, there is weirdness around this age, and the only thing to do is ride it out.

Do you think she might 'relax' in her cot for a while if given teddies/books/drawing or something? And then drop off?  Just trying to think about easier PDs.

[Haribo2012]

Totally seconding the weirdness at that age...my LO used to scream the house down at BT sometimes taking me a good hour or so of GW or WI/WO, NW of 2 hours, EW and then saying no no at nap time. I just tried to stay as consistent as possible and ride it out! Sometimes I'd look round and he'd nodded off on the sofa at crazy times and was doing longer A times than does now at 22 months!
1 hour naps for us are often discomfort or developmental craziness.
It does pass but try and keep OT at bay by offering quiet time and EBT x

[nevinsmama]

Hi there! Just wanted to offer a hand to hold and a hug for your sparky little girl! I think you have had great advice from Anne and Zoe WRT hanging on and getting through this less-than-charming phase! One things I have found helped both of my LOs around this age was to really "talk up" the nap and BT, make a big deal about a cuddle before, about how tired the lovey was, how good it would feel to lie down, get the bed "just so" and so on. Don't know if that would help your DD relax a bit about it all?
You are doing great to know her so very well and trying to meet her sleep needs, as they are, and get through all this! Hang in there and keep up the good work!

[jcsmom]

Thanks so much for your support. I have always gotten so much love here! We are still having stupid short naps but nights are stellar. She is probably crashing after a 45-60 minute nap but then sleeps 12 hours. I really think she is designed to have short naps /long nights.

With a short nap she seems better rested. If she long naps she fights bedtime and has a short night then seems OT. She goes to sleep in minutes after a short nap too. Would it be unheard of to cap at such a young age?

So here is what I am working on routine wise:
wu 7
nap 1-???
bed???
Looks good doesnt it? Lol. If she has a 11.5++ night her first A needs to be this long to get her to nap. But then if she has a good nap after a good night I have no idea when to get her down without massive mucking/singing etc. She literally mucks herself into oblivion! In the last 2 weeks BT has been 7 due to crap naps so I think her clock is set to 7-7 with a crap nap midday.
Yesterday her nap was 30 mins in the car. Unavoidable. 7-7 night and now she's been asleep for almost an hour. A catch up from yesterday. Advice?

[ZacsMumme]

Hugs JCsmum! Just came here to post about t driving me nutty doing insane BT refusals - crying like his little heart is breaking. Wanting to be 'on' me, and seems super tired but won't go to sleep. Longer nap cu means more of a battle at BT...I think it's the 18 mth SR and looks like your in it too sorry

If she has a 11.5++ night her first A needs to be this long to get her to nap. But then if she has a good nap after a good night I have no idea when to get her down without massive mucking/singing etc. She literally mucks herself into oblivion! In the last 2 weeks BT has been 7 due to crap naps so I think her clock is set to 7-7 with a crap nap midday.

This is us too I have no advice sorry I can't even remember how I got through this with Z

[weaver]

I'm thinking you might need to redefine 'good nap' for you and your LO.   Sounds like a 'good' nap for her is not a textbook 2 hrs or whatever. Just under an hour seemed to work well for her?  You are there with her, so you know better.

I have never been shy about waking my LOs up when I knew I had to, to get them to bed when I wanted them to, so I wouldn't mind too much about having to wake her up.  You will be doing her a favour, if it helps her do a 12 hr night.  And if you can get her asleep by 7, you are already far ahead of where I was at this age (sitting on the couch, trying not to look at the clock, as I could still hear LO1 talking to himself, at 9pm!). 

If you can see a pattern where short nap = good night, try to hold that for a couple of days and see what happens. She may need to interchange short nap days and long nap days, but she may not. 

[jcsmom]

Zacsmumme it's the pits isn't it? I remember this time with my ds as being the worst!
Yesterday kind of confirmed things for me when our day went like this:
wu 7
nap 1-2:45 woke her as we were going out
bed 7:15 and she finally fell asleep after "cribnastics" at 8:15
then we had an hour long NW which always happens after a long nap/late bedtime.
Wu 7:15
So I am stuck trying to figure out if a shorter nap is really the way to go. We do get much better nights after a 45 minute nap. Weird isn't it? I can't take the bedtime mucking. It drives me batty!

[jcsmom]

I am seriously losing my mind here. Yesterday she went down like a dream for both nap and night.
wu 7:15 (1 hr long NW)
nap 1-2:20
bed 7 settled at 7:20 sttn
wu 7
A perfect day for us. I am assuming she went down so easily as she had a NW and was tired. Put down at 12:50 today and it's 1:40 and she's screaming after playing for 40 mins. I hate this. Why all of a sudden is she not napping? I have to go to work for the next 3 days and my Mom who watches her will have such a hard time with this. What do I do?

[Joy-filled]

Frustrating, isn't it?  Hugs to you, dear.

If she does well on a 45-60 min nap (STTNs, mood is great, goes down easily, etc.), is there something that leads you to think she needs to nap longer.  I know that is quite a short nap compared to the average 18 month old, but if I recall correctly, Chloe has consistently shown since before she was even 12 months that she does much better with a short nap and "long" naps (average length for other LOs, but long ones for her) just mess her (and you) up.  Are you opposed to capping her nap at 1 hr for a week and seeing if that helps? 

I'm guessing her "long" nap yesterday and long night last night is why she is resisting her nap today as that is historically her pattern.  I think the only way you're going to get STTNs is if you cap her nap and the only way you're going to get "long" naps is if you shorten her night. If I were you I'd cap the nap.  What do you think?

[jcsmom]

Hey Char! She finally fell asleep at 1:50. I have no idea if I just let her sleep. She will probably wake after 30 mins. I feel like I have no idea any more what she needs. Perhaps she's just an OT mess. She is a happy girl and mostly seems rested. She seemed tired for her nap so perhaps I am missing her window. But I just don't get why all the sudden? She is sleeping later since dst. The only time she naps long is when we've had a poor night or a poor previous day. Do you or other mods think she is ready to nap cap? Perhaps I am missing something else.

[Joy-filled]

I do think she is ready for nap capping.  I've been capping Aaron's nap for a few months now and I am on route to wake him after a 1.5 hr nap because he had a long nap yesterday (1.75 hr capped) and long night last night (11 hr 25) so I know if I let him sleep longer he's going to have a short night tonight, either taking ages to fall asleep and/or waking early. 

Some LOs can nap 2-3 hrs and sleep great at night.  Not Aaron.  He does nap longer than Chloe, but Chloe also does longer nights than Aaron does.  In the end, he gets somewhere around 12.75 hrs of total sleep.  I think Chloe is the same (perhaps even more)?

If she's happy, well-rested and actually even better rested on a short nap I'd cap her nap at whatever times seems to work best for her.  Based on what you've written, I wouldn't let her nap longer than 1 hr if it was me.  Night sleep is precious and far more important than day sleep both for mommy and babe!

But, if you're convinced she's OT perhaps I'm totally off.  It just seems that more day sleep has always messed Chloe up, as opposed to improving things.  Am I mistaken?