Author Topic: 5MO & restarting EASY after giving up at 3 months  (Read 1287 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline TheNicholsons

  • New & Learning The Ropes!
  • *
  • Showing Appreciation 0
  • Posts: 4
  • Location:
5MO & restarting EASY after giving up at 3 months
« on: March 17, 2014, 00:24:31 am »
Hi everyone

I've been trying to talk my wife into posting here, but she never seems to have the time to so I'm taking charge and posting for us :)

My wife and I are giving the Baby Whisperer a second try after giving up on Shh/Pat and PUPD after a short stint around 3 months.  I don't know exactly what happened and how things got off track (I think it was his crying that did us in, so he was just nursed to sleep), but we hit a breaking point last week and decided to re-commit ourselves again.  We've been trying so many different things these past 5 months we're all over the place on what we should be trying to do.  When we look back at our history of sleep and feeds, he was basically being fed every 2 hours because he didn't nap longer then 30 mins, and he was probably just snacking. 

The reason for the recommit is because our 5MO was having multiple NWs and we weren't getting any sleep, but we seem to have curbed that issue (for the most part) in this short timespan (we started again on March 12).  He sometimes wakes up around 1am, but we're able to get him back to sleep relatively easy, but still wakes up anywhere from 3-4am for a feed then he's back off to sleep (before it'd take over an hour to get him back to sleep).  One of our biggest issues is that the 3 of us share a room together (and will be for a while still due to various circumstances), so getting him back to sleep as quickly as possible has always been our number one goal in the wee hours.

Since restarting EASY, we have jumped head first into the 4 hour EASY.  We're on day 5 right now and it's gone like this:
Wakeup - Anywhere between 6 and 7am.  If he's still asleep at 7am we wake him up. 
E
A
S - 9am (he wakes up between 30-40 mins, spend 20-40 mins trying to get him to sleep for another 30-45 mins)
E
A
S - 1pm (same as the 9am nap, wakes up within 30 mins but its REALLY difficult to get him back to sleep here)
E
A
CN - 430pm (Cat nap usually ends up happening around here and is as usual, 30 mins, if we're able to get him to sleep because he didn't sleep well at his 1pm nap)
E
A
E
Bath then Bed - Usually asleep by 7pm
DF - Somewhere between 930 and 1030.  He has a tendency to wake up before we have a chance to feed him
NF - Sometime between 330 and 430am

A couple of our APs:
- We've been VERY guilty of is that when he would wake up from his 30 mins naps, we'd always just go in and get him.  When he wakes up from his nap, he's always appears to be refreshed. 
- He was nursed to sleep for the longest time with his naps as well as bed time

Things that we've never been able to get a firm grasp of is how the EASY routine goes if he's unable to get a full nap in?  He's been a chronic 30mins napper for as long as we can both remember, which I keep reading is because he's OT.  If we're not able to get him to sleep at all after waking up, do we start the EASY again?  Even though the feeds won't be 4 hours apart?  Do we stick with the schedule?  Or base the EASY routine off his Sleep and Awake times?

If he doesn't feed very well, should we try again later during the A time?  He's a BF baby.

If he wakes up earlier then 7am (say 6am), do we just let him lie in his crib until 7?  Or is it time to get up and get the day started.  He doesn't seem to feed as well if he's been up for a bit.  He feeds better when he first wakes up.

Any tips would be great!

Thanks!
« Last Edit: March 17, 2014, 01:07:18 am by MrDblU »

Offline TheNicholsons

  • New & Learning The Ropes!
  • *
  • Showing Appreciation 0
  • Posts: 4
  • Location:
Re: 5MO & restarting EASY after giving up at 3 months
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2014, 16:35:48 pm »
To build on this
He wakes up happy from his naps, almost never cries, but he puts up a major fight when we try and get him back to sleep.  We've tried W2S but it doesnt appear to have any affects on him.  We've also tried sitting in the room with him to try and catch it..  But instead of progressively waking up like he does when we see him wake up in the mornings, he rolls and he's wide eyed.  Game over.

Another thing on the list is that right now he's dealing with his first cold, so his eating schedule is a bit out of wack as my wife is trying to keep him hydrated.

For the longest time we had tried an A time of 1.5hrs and then getting put down for a nap.  It was never easy getting him to sleep, major struggles and fight back.

Restarting EASY, we've been starting his wind down around 1h45m and work to get him to sleep for 2 hours.  His first nap is usually a quiet one to fall asleep, but all the following naps there's major fight back.  Maybe we're not keeping him up long enough?  He's almost 23 weeks now.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2014, 16:39:00 pm by MrDblU »

Offline creations

  • Feeding Solid Food & EASY
  • Moderator
  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 496
  • Posts: 21993
  • Location: UK
Re: 5MO & restarting EASY after giving up at 3 months
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2014, 22:02:51 pm »
Hi there and welcome to BW forums :)
Sorry to hear you and your DW have been having a difficult time with your routine, but don't feel bad about APing, sometimes it's needed just to get everyone some sleep!

So, lets see if I can answer a couple of your questions.
Things that we've never been able to get a firm grasp of is how the EASY routine goes if he's unable to get a full nap in?  He's been a chronic 30mins napper for as long as we can both remember, which I keep reading is because he's OT.  If we're not able to get him to sleep at all after waking up, do we start the EASY again?  Even though the feeds won't be 4 hours apart?
So, the point of the EAS is to put a little A between E and S, the idea being that you avoid feeding to sleep as a prop.  If for some reason E time (at 4hrs) comes close to S time (based on average A times initially, then based on your own LO's individual A times once you know what they are) then you can just do a couple of mins A time between to avoid the feed to sleep, something like a nappy change is fine.  With short naps your routine might look like EASAEAS and that's fine. Unless your LO is really struggling with the 4hrly E I would stick to this, feed a little early if you see a nap is going to be due, or feed a little late if LO is asleep, that's ok too.
Certainly during illness LO will likely need to bf more often for hydration as you've said. If you need specific advice on this please do post on the BF board as I don't have any experience of on-demand BFing.

Do we stick with the schedule?  Or base the EASY routine off his Sleep and Awake times?
This one is not so easy to answer because both can be true. Many people will count the A time from when LO wakes so if he woke after 30 mins nap you would begin to count his A time from then, some people also reduce the A slightly following a short nap to avoid OT (because LO didn't get a full restorative sleep so will be tired sooner).  However if your routine is right off track and you really need to get on track with with sleep then you can stick to the planned times (Tracy gave example of this in the BW books), in this case though you would stay with LO trying to resettle the nap for the entire nap length or around 45 mins before getting up, then follow with a full A time from when the nap 'should' have ended and go ahead with the next nap at the planned time.  If LO fell asleep at any time during the resettle you would wake him at the planned end of nap time (ie the next E time), this could mean waking him after 10 mins of sleep if he only just nodded off and then it was time to get up. This can lead to OT and short naps, it is also hard work for parents, but it gets a routine in place pretty quickly if you can stick to it.  The choice is yours.  Keeping with the planned, timed naps can involve lots of crying as LO either resists sleep or is annoyed at being woken, you always stay with LO during these times and comfort through the difficulty.  The thing to remember with crying is that so long as you are there your LO is safe, care for and knows he is, his stress levels will be low despite his loud protests.  Staying calm and reassuring throughout is key.

If he doesn't feed very well, should we try again later during the A time?  He's a BF baby.
During illness I would feed whenever he needs it. Like I said I don't have experience of this so please do feel free to post on the BF board.

If he wakes up earlier then 7am (say 6am), do we just let him lie in his crib until 7?  Or is it time to get up and get the day started.  He doesn't seem to feed as well if he's been up for a bit.  He feeds better when he first wakes up.
Again this is personal choice. If he is happy to wait until 7am then this should gradually help him learn this is when the day begins.  If he feeds better at 6am then this may be preferable, you could either treat this as a night wake (feed in dark room, no chat, just hushed voices where necessary, straight back into bed, then lights on and a bright "good morning!" at 7am) or you could call this the beginning of the day ("good morning" lights on and feed in a lit room). If your day begins at 6am adjust the E and S times to accommodate this.

We've tried W2S but it doesnt appear to have any affects on him
If you are using shush/pat to settle for naps and BT now have you tried the form of W2S where you begin 10 mins before the known wake up time and shush/patting all the way through the transition into the next sleep cycle and continue into deep sleep?  it may be worth another go.
Has he ever transitioned sleep cycles alone? ie did he ever do a longer nap? (sounds like he has not, so needs to be taught to continue to sleep and to self settle)

Maybe we're not keeping him up long enough?  He's almost 23 weeks now.
With an independent sleeper it is a little easier to work out their ideal A times for their personal needs so it is a bit of guess work right now.  However, I would increase his A time to 2hr 15 for the next 3 days and if you have no better success with either W2S or resettling a nap then increase again to 2hr 30 and keep it there for a week.  A times alone will not teach him to sleep independently or to transition alone from one cycle to another however working with an UT LO is very tricky.  To try to get these naps longer I suggest commitment to extending as well as increasing the awake time.
Average A times- BOOKMARK ME!

OK. Hope this helps some. Please do post again for more clarity or any more questions.


Offline TheNicholsons

  • New & Learning The Ropes!
  • *
  • Showing Appreciation 0
  • Posts: 4
  • Location:
Re: 5MO & restarting EASY after giving up at 3 months
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2014, 16:25:36 pm »
Thanks a ton for the response!
This is all really helpful information

Offline creations

  • Feeding Solid Food & EASY
  • Moderator
  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 496
  • Posts: 21993
  • Location: UK
Re: 5MO & restarting EASY after giving up at 3 months
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2014, 08:43:45 am »
No problem. Let us know how it goes.


Offline Samnewmom

  • New & Learning The Ropes!
  • *
  • Showing Appreciation 0
  • Posts: 1
  • Location:
Re: 5MO & restarting EASY after giving up at 3 months
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2014, 21:55:16 pm »
I feel like I could have written your thread. How is it going?  I guess I'm looking for inspiration as we are beginning our adventure this week.  He was on an EASY but then daycare threw everything off. They let him "snack" and he got use to eating every 1 1/2-2 hours. We're starting a new daycare that is home based and she's on board with getting him back on track.  He's 4 1/2 months.  He's not even on a 3 hour EASY but I would assume the goal is to ease him into the 4 hour EASY. The book gives a schedule of how to transition from a 3 to a 4 hour EASY but I'm not sure what to do since he's not even feeding every 3 hours. Any tips would be awesome. 

Offline TheNicholsons

  • New & Learning The Ropes!
  • *
  • Showing Appreciation 0
  • Posts: 4
  • Location:
Re: 5MO & restarting EASY after giving up at 3 months
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2014, 16:32:41 pm »
I feel like I could have written your thread. How is it going?  I guess I'm looking for inspiration as we are beginning our adventure this week.  He was on an EASY but then daycare threw everything off. They let him "snack" and he got use to eating every 1 1/2-2 hours. We're starting a new daycare that is home based and she's on board with getting him back on track.  He's 4 1/2 months.  He's not even on a 3 hour EASY but I would assume the goal is to ease him into the 4 hour EASY. The book gives a schedule of how to transition from a 3 to a 4 hour EASY but I'm not sure what to do since he's not even feeding every 3 hours. Any tips would be awesome. 

Hi there!
Sorry for not responding sooner..

Things have been going well.  Our LO is sleeping thru the night!  Down anywhere between 630 and 7pm and he's up by 6am (darn! but we're not complaining since we're all sleeping again!)  We stopped doing PU/PD as frequently as we were, and he discovered sleeping on his tummy.  He was rolling all the time and would freak out, but now he's comfortable to sleep like that.

Our EASY is kind of all over the place because of nap inconsistency, but we try and have a set feeding scheduling now.  Getting him on that feeding schedule wasn't the easiest, but we would just slowly test his boundaries to hit that 4 hour mark.

6am - Wakes up, feed, then A time
830am - Nap (still can be a bit tricky.  Sometimes sleeps for 35-45 mins, then the odd time he sleeps for 1.5hrs and we feel like we've cracked his code)
10am - Feed then A time
2.5hrs - 3hrs after last wakeup - Nap
2pm - Feed then A time
Between 330-4 - Feed, Try for another nap, not always successful, typically fights us tooth and nail
Sometime around 6 - begin wind down (usually take our LO out for a walk, then 6-8oz bottle, bath, story, bed)
Sleeping between 630 and 7

There have been the odd times where he wakes up in the middle of the night and fusses because he's hungry, but overall it's been going great.  He's been putting himself back to sleep more then us having to go and help him get back to sleep.  His naps still aren't the greatest, but he's sleeping thru the night, so we're incredibly happy about that.

We moved him into a spare room that opened up in the house, and ever since then things have been great for the 3 of us. 
« Last Edit: April 05, 2014, 16:34:41 pm by TheNicholsons »

Offline creations

  • Feeding Solid Food & EASY
  • Moderator
  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 496
  • Posts: 21993
  • Location: UK
Re: 5MO & restarting EASY after giving up at 3 months
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2014, 17:56:25 pm »
Nice to hear things have improved for you :)

I think your LO is now approaching 6 months, so you'll need to keep the 3-2 nap drop in mind.
All about the 3-2 transition- 5/6 months
Typically LOs need to have reached a 3hr A time which might seem far off for you, but if the first nap is hit and miss on length and if the last nap is a fight it could be time to increase the A and literally just spread those 2 naps across the day. The A time may be too long for your LO however if the CN is totally refused this makes the A to BT super long so in some ways it is preferable to move both naps later just to reduce the A to BT.
As you are already giving up to 3hrs between nap1 and 2, how about increase the first A time to 2hrs 45 and see how it goes?

If you don't get that CN I suggest planning for an EBT to keep the OT at bay. It can be difficult to fit everything in but if you realise the CN is a no-go I would move on to the pre BT routine pretty much immediately. There is no harm putting him to bed at 5.30pm the odd day and when you fully drop to 2 naps you may find an earlier BT becomes the norm for your routine for a while (maybe 6.00 or earlier).  Prepare yourselves for a night feed with such an early bed time, although often night feeds are not affected by EBT.
hth