7.5 month old night waking again

[LizPNI]

I'm back again. I had gotten some advice before and things were going better, but my son has started night waking again.  Here is all the info

How old is your child? 7.5 months
What’s his/her daily routine?
Both my husband and I work full time so he spend the day with husband's aunt and cousin. The schedule is something like this, but they don't always follow it
6-6:30 wake up
7am 8oz formula
8: breakfast (protein veggies fruit)
9am sleep (between 1-2 hours it really varies)
11: bottle 8 ounces (if he doesn't finish bottle he gets some formula to drink while eating lunch)
12: lunch (protein and veggies)
1: Nap sometimes earlier at 12:30 Also 1-2 hours depending on how first nap went and how earlier he woke up in the morning
3: 8oz formula
5: sometimes short nap
6: dinner
6:30 or 7 bottle and sleep routine (depends on if he got third nap)
12am o 1am (night feeding, but I don't think he's really hungry offered 4oz only take 2 sometimes)
3am or 4am  sometimes feeding, but sometimes he's just up no crying but won't go back to sleep
What’s nap routine? This is one issue.. sing to him and then pat back and he takes pacifier, but lately the babysitter says she can't get him to sleep unless she rocks him but outside of the helping him fall asleep he is a pretty good napper at home. If we are somewhere else it is harder to get him to sleep.
How long are naps? 1-2.5 hours it really depends on how long first nap was.
What's bedtime routine? Time? Starts at 6:30 or 7 depending on third nap.. bottle, books, songs and then I used to be able to put him down and he fell right asleep. Some nights I can pat his back, some nights now it escalates to screaming and I have to give him the pacifier. The other night I put him down and he rolled over and it looked like he went right to sleep. 10 minutes later heard noises and he was playing in his crib. He played for 10 minutes and then started screaming. He seemed so exhausted. I lied him down and patted his back and he was out in a few minute.s
Do you bottle or breastfed?? Just weaned due to business travel, so he nurses once around 4-5am otherwise it's all bottles.
How much? or how long? 8oz per feed x 4 plus sometimes 4oz in the middle of the night (note i'm not home during the day so not sure if he finishes all 8oz bottle or not)
How many wakes per night? Some nights he makes it all the way to 12am or 1am...last night he woke at 9pm and then 12am. After 1am it's every hour util 3 or 4 and then after that I can't get him to go back to sleep. Sometime I bring him in the bed at 4am because I need to sleep because of work, but that is not even helping anymore.
What’s your LO like when waking at night? How long is he/she up? Sometimes he just needs a back pat or if he didn't start off night with pacifier I can give him that and he goes right to sleep. He sleep in our room so I know he can resettle himself because I hear do it several times a night. After 3-4am I try to pat him back to sleep and it seems like something bothering him. I check diaper, room temp and then I  pat his back, he mantra cries while I pat his back and then it starts to escalate and he starts to cry/scream and he won't go back to sleep and the  he is just wide awake and wants to play. He is then up from 4-am to 5am and then after 5 we can sometimes get him to go back to sleep but only if we put him in the bed with us. If we put him in the crib he either scream or plays.
When you go to him/her is she fussing or crying? Or is it a mantra cry? Crying...he's often sitting up or in crawling position crying. Like he can't get back to sleep but wants to.
What have you tried to settle?? back pats and pacifier, shushing noise
What do you do for A time and how long is it? 21/2 to 3 hours... crawling and playing most of the time, likes to walk around with you holding hands, very active
Are there developmental issues such as teething or milestones? just started crawling and pulling up to standing at 7 months, can't sit still... Got two teeth at 7 months
Do they have a prop? If so what is it? Pacifier, but does't always need it. I think it might have something to do with teething...Can back pats be a prop? If so he often can't settle now with out them
Do they have a lovie? He has one in the crib that I tried to introduce, but he doesn't seem too interested.

Looking through this it seems like there is a lot going... I'm just not sure where to start and what issue to tackle first. I'm only home for one week before I travel again. I want to try to fix somethings in the next week and then live clear instructions for my husband and babysitter while I'm gone. I also think he doesn't needs two night feeds anymore but we are giving them to him because we don't know what else to do.

[Darla Lesy]

I'm interested to see any suggestions you get, this is a carbon copy of our issues. Also very interested to see the response to "can patting become a prop?" Our LO seems to need it to go to sleep also. Sorry I don't have any advice for you tho!

[Layla]

Hi hun, I am so sorry your post has been missed.

Looking at your routine, I think he needs a little more A and that way you can also get rid of the catnap. With more A between the 2 naps, he will hopefully sleep a little longer (1.5hrs). So I would start adding 10-15mins until you get to around 3hrs and your routine is something like this:

6.30 - awake
9.30-11 - morning nap
2-3.30 - afternoon nap
6.30ish - bedtime

His current A may also explain why his babysitter has to rock him to sleep.. he may not be tired enough and he is probably just not tired enough at bedtime if he's had the catnap. During the transition period, on the days dd3 didn't take her 3rd nap, I would put her down earlier for the night so try not to let him stay up more than 3hrs.

Back pats can indeed become a prop if you're doing it all the time but as I mentioned earlier, I think this is more of a case of needing more A and hopefully you won't have to help him as much as he will be tired enough to fall asleep on his own rather than messing about at bedtime.

I've attached a link for you to look at... let me know what you think!

All about the 3-2 transition- 5/6 months

[LizPNI]

Hi

Thanks so much.
Since I hadn't heard back I did a bunch of reading of other posts and had come to the conclusion that I needed to drop the third nap and extend his activity, so we are working on this right now. Last night was a little better in that the early wake up where I can't get him to go back to sleep came at 5:30am and not 4:30am. If he slept through the night a 5:30am wakeup wouldn't kill me because I usually get up then to exercise, but haven't been lately since I'm so exhausted.

The other major issue I need to tackle is the pacifier. Last night he woke around 10pm, 11pm and 12pm and if I stuck the pacifier in his mouth he went right back to sleep. Tonight I'm going to start working on getting him to go down without the pacifier. On the few nights when I'm able to get him down without the pacifier I can hear him wake up and settle himself a few time a night, so I know he can do it.

[Layla]

Hmm, if you have to replug the paci for him to get back to sleep, as you know, its probably a prop. I would look at taking it away too... you can do it!!! Throw it out so you don't get tempted 

Did you want to post last couple of days? He may be waking up really early due to overtired. During the transition period, on the days he doesn't take the 3rd nap, I would suggest an earlier bedtime too. Try and not have him awake for more than 3 hrs, so if his 2nd nap ends at 3pm, I would put him down for the night at 6pm. We did bedtime between 5-5.30pm some evenings with dd3 during the 3-2 nap transition.

 

[LizPNI]

I need to talk to the babysitter to get the schedule for yesterday. Over the weekend we had a family event, which messed with his schedule.

Last night I put him in the crib and there were pacifiers scattered around and he found one on his own and went to sleep. If I take the Pacifier away do I do PU/PD to get him to sleep?

Last night he woke up at 2:00 and I could get him to sleep. He played in his crib for about 20 minutes and then started crying. I was finally able to get him to sleep at 3. He was up at 6.

[LizPNI]

Last night went much better. I didn't take the pacifier away  because I think he's teething and taking the pacifier away the night before resulted in some awful screams, different from when I did sleep training. Instead we have been showing him how to replug and he seems to have picked it up pretty quickly. The only issue is he moves around so much in the crib he can't always find them.

His day yesterday
6:00am wake up
7:00am bottle
8:000 solids
9:30 Sleep
11:30 wake up and bottle
12:30 solids
3:00 bottle
3:30 sleep
4:45 wakeup
7: bottle and sleep routine
He went to sleep on his own, he found the pacifier himself and stuck it in
He woke up at 1:00 and played for a while and then started to do his hungry cry. Gave him a bottle and he went back to sleep. I heard him playing at 3:00am (and by playing I mean figuring out how to escape from the pack and play) By 3:30 I didn't hear anything and he had fallen back asleep on his own. Only problem was he woke up at 5am and would not go back to sleep.

I know the Activity time was too long. I've talked to the babysitter and she said he wasn't tired at 2:30. The babysitter is my husbands aunt. She doesn't speak much English and my vocabulary is fairly limited in Pohnpeian (we live on small island in the pacific ocean) My husband has to translate when we discuss things like this and I keep trying to explain the importance of the schedule but it seems she is following his sleep cues now instead of trying to put him down too early and stick to the schedule which is what she was doing before. He is a very active baby, so maybe he can handle longer activity times. We will see how today goes.

[Skadiver13]

The only issue is he moves around so much in the crib he can't always find them.

Just make sure there are plenty in there an he'll eventually figure it out. You can also get ones that are glow in the dark .

Keep working on the A times and your babysitter it will happen eventually. You want to try and keep to a 13hr day so if he's up at 6 want him asleep no later than 7.

[LizPNI]

What do I do if his 2nd nap is so late in the day? Since he didn't wake up till 4:45 from his last nap yesterday he just didn't seem tired at 6:30. So this morning he was up at five so I need to have asleep by 6. If he takes another late nap it is going to be hard to get him to sleep at 6. The other issue is both my husband and I get home from work around 5:30 so he gets a burst of energy right when we get home.

[Skadiver13]

Hi Hun is there anyway to apop him back to sleep in the mornings for now? I know with my LO while i was working on stretching his A times I would rock him back to sleep for an hour just to get a later wakeup? Some moms can some say no. Is he happy enough to lay in his crbi at 5 or does he get cranky. If he will not go back to sleep you might just have to stretch the A times very slowly by 5/10min every few days and see what happens taht way.

That was a long A time between the first and second nap so he may be OT by BT so he may not seem tired but he is. I know it's so tough with the work schedules etc so do what you need to in the afternoon/evening to keep it calm etc. But maybe a very quiet winddown right after you get home? Mabye you all could go straight into the bath and BT when you get home so you get to spend an hour with him but quietly?

[LizPNI]

Last night was a disaster. I think he was way over tired.

Since he woke up at 5am I started his sleep routine a little before 6, but he didn't want to drink his evening bottle at all. The bottle usually is what calms him down and settles him before reading, singing and then hopefully sleeping. We don't do night time baths because he loves to play in the water. They do not have calming effect. Often right after or during this bottle he poops. Since he wasn't taking his bottle I just continues on with the bedtime routine. I put him in the bed sleepy and he found his pacifier and it looked like he was going to sleep. Left the room about 10 minutes later I can hear him playing. Go in there and immediately notice his diaper is dirty. I have to change his diaper, which always gets him all worked up. change his diaper do a mini routine with the rest of the bottle (which he really wanted) book and song to calm him down and I put him in the crib and have to pat him to sleep. But he is asleep in 5. Thought we would be ok.

Then he awoke at 11. Was still really sleepy. Kept patting him to sleep, but he would wake up after 5-10mins. Check temp, diaper and tried to feed him but he didn't want it. Keep patting him. Then he started to get worked up, but I kept patting him and eventually settled. Leave from and 10 minutes latter I hear him playing. He has been working on pulling himself up in the pack n' play and he finally achieved it. Every time I go in there lay him down, pat his back he either screams or falls asleep for a minute and is up and crawling around and then standing. Finally at almost 2am I give up and rock him to sleep in my arms and he slept with me in the bed till 5:30. I tried to get him to go back to sleep at 5:30 with a bottle, but no luck. Maybe tomorrow I will try rocking him again if he wakes early.


So hopefully last nights wake up was just the excitement of being able to stand in his crib.

[Skadiver13]

Hi hun wehn he woke at 11 do you think he could have been hunger but he was too tired to take it? Or certainly could have been OT.

very time I go in there lay him down, pat his back he either screams or falls asleep for a minute and is up and crawling around and then standing.

I wouldn't lay him down. I would just pat the mattress and tell him it's sleepy time and let him get himself down. Lots of practice during the day but otherwise it will just become a game to him as he knows you'll come back in to lay him down.  Sounds like  a big developmental leap is happening which can always mess with sleep.

I know you wanted to get him back to sleep when you brought him into bed but it will and can soon become a prop. Its ok on a one off day and I do that when my lo is sick but you want him to realize he can go back to sleep on his own even if he wakes in the middle of the night.

[LizPNI]

well last night was much better. His morning nap was over three hours (maybe to make up for the bad night) and then he took a short nap in the late afternoon.

He slept at 6:45. He awoke at 11:50pm and I fed him. Then since it had cooled down enough i put him in his sleep sack. Maybe this contained him a little, so he didn't keep standing up. The past few days have been really hot here, so I haven't been able to use the sleep when I first put him down. Then he slept till 4:30am. I was able to pat him and he slept till about 5:30 and then I rocked him and he slept till 6:15ish.

I'm not sure what happened the other night at 11, but i think it's problem a combo of things including the excitement of being able to stand in his crib

I'm home from work today and his morning nap at 9:30 was tough and he only slept for an hour but maybe he is less tired since he slept well for him last night.

I leave for a week tomorrow and his dad and grandma will be in charge. Hopefully things are not a mess when I get back.

[Skadiver13]

Can't do much until you get back. I would just try to have them stick to a routine as much as possible. You'd be spurised whenever I went out of town my lo slept like a dream .. 1hr sounds UT to me so I think you can definitely stretch those A times and the sleep sack was a good idea.

[LizPNI]

Back home for a few days now.
He is sleeping much better. Waking up once between 11-1 for a bottle. He is only taking 3-4 ounces though.  Now I just have an issue with early wakings. Every morning he is up at 4am and still very tired. I do my best to resettle him in his crib, but if he doesn't fall back asleep quickly he gets all worked up. I have tried the rocking him to sleep. Eventually that works around 5 and he sleeps till 7.  Apparently while I was gone when he woke up at 4am my MIL was holding him until he fell asleep and then lying him down next to her. 

I also hope to drop the bottle at night soon as probably doesn't really need it.

He's naps are pretty long during the day. Could this also be a problem?