Is there a way to increase daytime feedings - Twins feeding 2 time per night!

[annamomof3]

Hello from NJ! I need some advice. I have a 3 y/o boy who sleeps all night and 5.5 month old twins who I feel I have tried everything with in terms of rice cereal, soothing, later feeds/dream feeds, and  "crying it out" and nothing has worked. I'd like to just say I'll chalk it up to maybe they aren't ready but my singleton slept longer faster and between hormonal post partum distress I need sleep!

Here is there schedule - if anyone can share any tips i feel like if they ate more during the day they'd sleep longer at night but maybe i am wrong and they are over eating,

My boy is roughly 18 lbs and my girl is roughly 15 lbs (Yes they are only 5.5 months  - chunky babies and healthy!)

6-7a wake up
730 4 -  5.5 oz bottles
930 Breakfast 5-6 TBSP for her, 7-7.5 TBSP for him (cereal/fruits) + (yes plus) an addt'l 1-2 ounces of formula in bottle (sometimes they don't  drink at all)
1230 wake up - play, 4 & 5oz bottles
230 3 & 4 oz bottles
5pm 4 & 5oz bottles (sometimes this feed they drink an ounce or two less)
45 minute nap
7pm 5 TBSP & 7 TBSP dinner
8pm 2 ounces plus tsp of rice each (sometimes they don't drink and just go to bed at
either way I wake for a dream feed at
11pm 4 & 5 oz each
Both wake at
3am looking for a tried few sips of water/formula for both (sometimes boy is set with a pacifier and a reposition but girl will cry unless she eats 2-3 oz) tried letting them cry this continued for almost an hour - couldn't do it!
5am 5/4oz bottles
6am my 3 y/o wakes....
I am pretty much on my own all week so I am in need of some tips from other moms who have singletons / mutliples I don;t know what else to do other then continue doing what ive been doing which i am ok with but from all my reading it appears by now they should be sleeping at least 7 + hours! Im appreciative for my 5-6 =) HELP!!!!>??

[Lolly]

Hi and Welcome! Have you read the Baby Whisperer books - are you familiar with the EASY routines?

I can see a few issues with the routine you posted, but you haven't mentioned naps! When and how long are they napping for?

The first thing I would say is that they are having a lot of solids for their age and this will be impacting on their milk intake. They need milk more than they need solids as the calories and fats in milk are what sustains them until they are 1, there's a saying "food until 1 is just for fun!".

I think they are eating solids too late in the day too and bedtime is too late. If they are awake between 6 and 7 then 7pm needs to be the time they are asleep by so they have a roughly 12 hour day/night. Solids too late causes digestive discomfort so you are better giving solids earlier (and less) so that they take a decent bedtime bottle.

You say you are waking for a dreamfeed, the point of that feed is NOT to wake them but to feed them in their sleep so you give them extra calories but they keep sleeping. At this age 2 nightfeeds is actually fairly normal, I always found it better to give a feed at the first waking (providing it was at least 4 hours after the DF) and get them back to sleep ASAP. If they then woke pre 6am I resettled without feeding, after 6am and we were up for the day. The 7 hour stretch babies do at this age is from bedtime, so a waking at 2/3am gives you that stretch. Mine never took to the DF so we just fed on waking which was sometime after midnight and then got them back to sleep (or not in my son's case ) quickly.

Have a look at this link chronological EASY samples, 4-6 months there are examples of routines for babies the age of yours so you can see how their days could be going.

I also need to add that adding rice cereal to their bottles isn't a good idea. Rice in bottles can be a choking hazard as it doesn't thicken evenly and it really won't help them sleep any longer as it's just filling them up with empty calories.

What do you think?

Laura

What flow teat do you have them on - if it's not the fastest it's worth trying to see if they will take better bottles. If you don't feed too close to morning they should be hungrier and start the day with a better bottle. 

[annamomof3]

Laura,

I agree!

Thank you! I think you may be right! I didn't realize it but I knew I was over feeding solids I just thought if their mouths open to continue but didnt take under consideration that they really need more milk until 1 - I waited until 6mnths to introduce food to my first son - funny how things change with the 2nd and 3rd! However I breastfed longer with my first and worked - now home with all 3 I last 11 weeks breast feeding and gave up - bottle central it is at my home!

Here is my b/g twin schedule again for today naps included: I just started reading into all of the Whisper methods and I believe my Lo's schedule is similar to the 5.5 mnth EASY but you would better know: and thank you for the dream feed tip - i never interpreted DF for it's literal meaning! How silly of me! I didn;t know allowing them to drink laying asleep was safe or even possible, so I always woke them! Total fail!  Tonight my husband and I dream-fed both together and Neither woke! I was scared thinking they;d choke!

Schedule
To bed at 830 PM night before NO DF.
TODAY 1am baby girl 3 oz night feed
3am baby boy 3 oz night feed
5am baby boy 3 oz back to sleep
6am baby girl 4oz back to sleep
7am baby girl wakes for day -
730a baby boy wakes for day (they share a room too)
activity until 9 am both ate cereal/fruit roughly 5TBSP girl, 7 TBSP boy followed by 2oz of formula each
930-1030 both nap
12noon baby girl 1oz formula, baby boy 2 oz formula
12:15-1:15 baby girl naps
1:20 baby girl eats 3oz
baby boy naps from 12:15-2pm
2pm baby boy drinks 5.5 oz
230-4pm both babies nap
445p baby girl 5oz, baby boy 5.75oz
515 (dinner - i fed them much less tonight as you noted) 4.25TBSP boy, 3.25 TBSP girl they seemed satisfied
630 bath routine, story
7pm bed routine 2oz baby boy, 3.75oz baby girl
715 asleep
1030 Dream fed baby boy 5 oz, DF baby girl 3oz

Tomorrow I will decrease solids in the morning and move up dinner to a lunch hour as you noted. I can't imagine this won;t work  - i think they simply havent been drinking enough formula and it really messed up their routine. When they were 3 mnths now that i think of it they slept longer! Im praying! Thank you so much for responding you made this tired mommy a very happy girl today! Hoping this weekend I will see some progress! Love this forum!

[Lolly]

Glad you are feeling a bit better!

With the DF, some people do feed lying down (especially if the cot is elevated) but it's better to pick them up! You just quietly and slowly lift them up out of the cot and feed, then lie them back down again. Depending on which part of their sleep cycle they are in they may stir a bit but they should stay asleep!

Theother thing to do is to make sure that milk comes first and solids as part of A time about an hour after a milk feed. That's another reason for not feeding too much in the night - for example I would have made baby girl's 6am feed her first morning feed and run the day from there really. If baby boy had a feed at 3am he really wouldn't have needed another feed at 5am so there may be a bottle priop issue too. It looks like they have milk close to a few of their naps/ sleep.

At this age my DD was doing something like

6.30 wake up and bottle
7.30/8 solids
9/9.30 nap (after school run)
11 wake and bottle
12 solids
1.30/2 nap
3.30/4 wake and bottle
4.30/5 solids
7/7.30 bottle and sleep (after bath)

We started her on solids early because of reflux but she was only taking a few teaspooons (maybe 2 tablespoons at the most!) at each meal

How much are you offering at a feed and what flow teats are they on?

Laura

[annamomof3]

Thanks Laura - I can't tell you thank you enough - - -  your a life saver! We slept from 11-3 /4a last night feels great =) However I may try to pick them for the DF tonight I feel uneasy allowing them to lay but all went well (I hope i am not jinxing things) I'll just plan to feed one at a time. Solid intake  -  I decreased at dinner last night today I will decrease again by another 2 TBSP and feed earlier.  This change will most likely get baby to boy eat half of what he was eating -  roughly 3 TBSP and baby girl down to most likely 2 TBSP. This small change already effected both of their intake of formula. For instance this morning both woke at 7am and my son had to be out early today so I couldnt feed immediately and had to wait to do bottle at 745a but both were happy- I changed the level nipple to a 3 for afaster flow and baby girl drank 5.5 ounces (she never drank past 4)  but baby boy only took in 3.5 oz (perhaps their colds and teething are effecting their diets?). 

For now yes today is going this way:

(DF 11p)
E 3a baby girl
E 4a baby boy
A 7am both
S 8am
waiting for them to wake to
E fruit solids (will decrease intake today again)

If I feed two tbsp - to 3 tbsp at 10a should i omit another lunch dinner of solids? IF not what time to you advise to give?  Funny my pediatrician was advising us to feed with adding rice to bottles, telling us theyre old enough to "allow them to cry the night feeds out" and told me to feed solids late - none worked (maybe its time to look for another pediatrician - she was great 3 years ago but she seems to busy).

~Anna

I can't tell you how comforted I feel to finally have found a methodology that is working!

[annamomof3]

Correction:!
DF was at 1030
E3a baby girl
E4a baby boy
A7a both
E 745a 5oz/3.5oz
S8a both

[Lolly]

How was the rest of your day and night yesterday?

If you are feeding solids at 10am I would skip lunch time solids and give some more late afternoon. They don't need 3 meals at this age, babies that start Baby Led Weaning are eating tiny amounts from 6 months. Have you started finger foods with them?

Laura

[annamomof3]

Days have been pretty much on the 4 hours easy sched. with the exception of boy eating and hour after my girl. Cant seem to get them hungry  - together! Twins~! I have fed them at 10am 2.5-3.5 TBS and again at 445pm. They are drinking more at each feed so I hope to eliminate the DF sooner than later. I havent started them on finger foods yet - can you reccommend any? when you mention finger foods do you mean puffs? - My boy is almost sitting so he may be ready my girl not close but shes rolling and army crawling he isnt...

They both still wake for an ounce at 3 and 4 am - havent gotten to my library yet to pick up the books i will saturday. IF they feed an ounce at 3-4am then is it alright that they eat less at 7am? Also if they nap longer then the 4 hours easy am i suppose to wake them?

[Lolly]

Twins - I can't even begin to imagine how you cope!

Solids sounds fine to me. For finger foods, mine both started with them around 5.5/6 months they had things like strips of toasted bread, broccoli florettes, steamed carrot batons etc as well as things I bought in shops like baby puffs. rice cakes. I followed the baby led weaning principles of giving finger shaped wedges/ sticks that were big enough so they could hold in their hand with enough sticking out to eat. If they can pick it up and get it to their mouths they have the oral skills to deal with it, finger/ wedges are better because they can control it themselves. You are feeding them sitting in a high chair now though aren't you?

If they are only taking an oz when they wake it's a prop and not hunger, especially if they are taking less at wake up because of it. I would get rid of that bottle rather than the DF, most babies still need that until about 7/8 months. You will just need to re-settle rather than offer the bottle at that waking, it will take a few days and you will have some rough nights but 3 or 4 nights *should* be enough to break the prop if you stick to it.

Well done though, you are making great progress!

Laura

[annamomof3]

Hi Laura,

How are you?  after a rough week babies finally slept through after the 11P DF until 6am (my girl still wakes but only for a few minutes until we settle her back down).

I haven't even picked up my baby whisper books from the library so I've been reading on this forum, www, and taking your advice until I can get them.

My twins have been on a close schedule but not exact. Girl is always awake 20 minutes after boy is down. I lay her to let her know its quite time / nap time but she has much more energy!

Since they both wake at 6A I start with first bottle roughly 5 ounces each then they nap aroung 730 - with the 4 hour EASY should I be feeding them solids at 10 then offer next bottle an hour later? What do you think? I offer dinner at 5pm now and they are asleep by 7PM.

Since they'v

[Lolly]

Wow! Great progess!!

You need to offer the next bottle at 10am and the solids an hour after so they fill up on the milk first and the solids are the extra.

That first A time is quite short still, they should be doing at least 2 hours now so I would push that out by 15 mins, hold for a few days and then push it again. If Baby Girl isn't sleepy at nap time she is telling you she needs a bit more A time!

Sounds like your nights are a lot better!

Laura

[annamomof3]

Oh the time they nap after they eat their first bottle is short only 20-30 minutes so now boy is up but she is still napping. I don't think they'll ever get onto the same schedule! However for purposes of tid bits of me time it helps since I can't dress or hold both at the same time! Got it with the solids now I get caught up with not feeding them food early - but I guess it really doesn't matter, none are in school yet and I have until september until my 3 y/o starts so why rush an early bird breakfast! Yes nights are better but each night as you know is slightly different - I am just happy they aren't eating at 3am anymore it was so exhausting!

[Lolly]

Oh the time they nap after they eat their first bottle is short only 20-30 minutes

That's because it's and under tired nap! If you stretch the A times they will nap for longer and it will set them up better for the day as they will be able to do full A times and then do full naps. A restorative nap is 2 sleep cycles (1.5 hours) so if they do less they aren't getting the rest they need.

Just think what you can do if they both nap at least 1.5 hours!

Laura