need a bit more sleep!

[countingsheep]

Hello all
My 7.5 mnth boy (born at 34 weeks) currently normal weight is not STTN
We are actually doing quite ok but he wakes once or twice a night and I leave him to cry until atleast 3 am then feed him.
If he wakes after 3 I feed him.
I am aware that this isn't so bad but I am so anxious that I do not sleep at all and wont until I know he is sleeping  and this is why I need to get his sleep more consistent, and this is really tough as I am at work!

He was in his own bed from birth (hammock then crib own room at 4 months) .
As of 2 months I tried to get him on somesort of schedule but was affected by gas .

He now is breast and EBM fed (maybe 1 bottle every 2 days if I cant get back from work to feed).  He has a very small amount of baby-led solids.

this was his rough schedule until last night

AWAKE +milk 7.45
breakfast 8am
sleep 10am (30 minutes if it goes wrong but usually 1hr-1.5hrs)
milk 11.30-12 ish
food at 12.30
sleep at 1.30-2pm (1.5hrs)
milk at 4.15 (or whenever I get back from work!)

more often than not a 5pm ish catnap for 30 mins

food at 6.30....then a hissy-fit...then milk
grazes on milk til 7.15 then bed 15 minutes later.

Normally 1 boob per feed, no soother (ever), has a stuffy (sometimes sucks it at night).  Tried shh-pat (worked) tried pu/pd for naps (did my back-in so cant do it anymore!) (didn't work!)

He goes to bed very very easily, but if he wakes he can just scream for  2 hrs or more.  I found that me going in actually prolongs his screaming so I don't.  Shh pat was working for a while but took just as long as doing nothing, so we do nothing!

I have not tried dream feed....Last night he woke at 1 am cried til 2.50 (just as I was thinking of feeding him!) then slept til 6.45 when we started our day

Because last night was a little different I am thinking tonight is my chance to mix it up  and I cant decide whether to dream-feed at 10pm or just take this chance to cut night feedings altogether and let him cry.? -QUESTION 1!!

Question 2- I have no idea why some nights he sleeps to 4 and others he wakes at midnight/1 , I also don't know why he cant get himself back to sleep when he gets himself off to sleep just fine (always put down awake-except for occas car and stroller naps when I am running errands)

oh and 1 last bit of info!- we were doing really well on just 1 4 am feed until he started with diarrhoea 8 weeks ago that lasted 6 weeks, he would poop whenever he cried so I had to go in to change him as his bum rash was getting really bad!- I never found the cause of the 10 green poo's a day but it is normal again now


ANY SUGGESTIONS AT ALL WILL SAVE MY MARRIAGE LOL!!!!!

[Skadiver13]

Hi hun. A few things.
When you say you leave him to cry do you mean you wait until he is full fledged crying or you are actually letting him cry it out until he falls back asleep on his own?
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I wouldn't intorduce a dream feed at this age. Are you feeding him solids at 6:30 or milk? If solids I would stop that and only do solids at this point in the am. I would do milk only before bed. If he's getting solids he wont be as hungry for the milk before bed hence the grazing and he's most likely actually very hungry at night.

ast night he woke at 1 am cried til 2.50 (just as I was thinking of feeding him!) then slept til 6.45 when we started our day

We really don't condone crying it out so if that's the case here I would suggest going to him trying to soothe him in a matter like shush pat. 

Question 2- I have no idea why some nights he sleeps to 4 and others he wakes at midnight/1 , I also don't know why he cant get himself back to sleep when he gets himself off to sleep just fine (always put down awake-except for occas car and stroller naps when I am running errands)

If he is an independent sleeper than there is a reason he is waking. It could be discomfort from the solids, hunger especially at this age. My lo was taking a full feed 2 times a night at this age and once until 10months. At some point yes he will go back to sleep if you let him cry for 2hrs because he will eventually just give up but that's not saying there still isn't a reason he is waking.  If you offer a feed at his first waking if it's 4hrs after his last feeding and he takes a full feed then you have your answer.

[countingsheep]

Thanks
He IS definitely full-fledged crying, we used to go in to settle him before and we find it actually takes him longer to settle and that is why we stopped going in, it certainly isn't meant to be neglectful but I want him to cry as little as possible and that is actually the way he cries least! (I am of course still awake and watching him from the other room)
Shh-pat was working a few months ago and then ceased to work (we would be shush patting for 3 hrs!)
at 6.30 he gets dinner with us (solids) usually amounts to about the equivalent of 10ml of solids as he doesn't get much in,.

I will drop that solid feed, thanks so much for your prompt and detailed advice!!

[Skadiver13]

He IS definitely full-fledged crying, we used to go in to settle him before and we find it actually takes him longer to settle and that is why we stopped going in, it certainly isn't meant to be neglectful but I want him to cry as little as possible and that is actually the way he cries least!

Hi hun, my question is to clarify not judge. But did you say that you've left him up to 2hrs crying? For a child who is an IS to do this means he needs you. At this point I would move on to wiwo have you tried that?

For the solids yeah it's suprising how little solids will fill them up but calorie wise it's not filling so they will get hungry much sooner. I would move solids to the AM for now and that way he'll take a full feed at say 6:30. That way if he wakes anytime after 4hrs post that I would at first try and feed him. If he takes a full feed and goes back to sleep then great. If he does but doesn't go back to sleep go with WIWO.

Looking at your EASY 2hrs is a the lower end of A times for a lo at 7 months. So maybe you could also try an extend his A times by another 15min in the AM. The wakings at night may be due to being UT. The short naps in the AM could be OT due to having a bad night with a long waking.

[countingsheep]

Don't worry, I didn't feel judged.

He doesn't scream for the whole 2 hours, it escalates, then I think I am about to go in and then it settles for a minute or 2 and then it restarts!...so yes a lot of screaming but not the full 2 hrs.
Incidentally I CANNOT tell the difference between his mantra cry and any others
I have not tried WIWO (walk-in walk out?) and am not familiar (fingers through Tracey's Book LOL)

Will try getting hubby to go in and out...how often?, he really is a milk zombie with me...he knows I've got the goods!

I am glad there is no food tonight, as dad would have been feeding him shop-bought pizza (mmmm nutritious!)

[Skadiver13]

Yes it's easier if DH will try the wiwo but make sure to read over the links etc. Just to confirm when he goes down for naps and BT you are able to put him in his crib and leave and he puts himself to sleep? But I am thinking that he may be hungry at that first feeding (if it's 4hrs post bt feeding) so I would feed him and then take it from there.

Walk In/Walk Out vs. The Gradual Withdrawal Method (HOW TO CHOOSE)

[Erin M]

Like Siobhan said, you may need a bit of a routine change -- have you seen this?
All about the 3-2 transition- 5/6 months

Agree with shifting the solids earlier -- takes that variable out of consideration when dealing with the NWs -- also, might teeth be a possibility?

[countingsheep]

yes. he is perfect at going down for nap and sleep (usually straight down or 10 minute whimper) but sometimes wakes early from naps and doesn't always go back down. most naps are ok though.

we are really trying to get down to 2 naps...but we turn around at the end of the day and he commences a catnap!!! LOL

thnxs again. I really value advice from people who can see it objectively!

[*Ali*]

WIWO is really meant for toddlers but there is a variation for 8mo+ described here for dealing with separation anxiety. That may be more relevant to you than the version in the link above. Separation Anxiety
You should go in based on his cries rather than a certain period of time. If he is doing a fully fledged cry you would go in immediately.

Typical A time for a 6.5-7mo is 2hr45-3hr15 so you will probably find he needs even more of an A time boost than 15 mins.
Average A times- BOOKMARK ME!

I know you say he cries more when you go in but the aim really is to comfort him and let him know you are there to tend to his needs not to make him stop crying as quickly as possible. Tracy was opposed to leaving babies to cry alone as she felt it broke the bond of trust between baby and caregiver. Have a look at these FAQs to see why CIO really isn't a good idea.
Research on why 'cry it out' and 'controlled crying' is NOT recommended!
Cry it out (CIO): 10 reasons why it is not for us
Video on CIO/CC and its effect on brain development

After such long periods of crying alone he may well need to regain that trust and need more than WIWO to do so. Have a read of this FAQ and see if you could incorporate any if the tips into your resettling method.
Regaining Trust of Your Child

As pp says I would feed him if he wakes after 4hrs or more. It is well within the realms of normal for an EBF 7.5mo (and certainly a 6mo which is his adjusted age I believe) to have a DF around 10-11pm and then another NF some time between then and morning wake up. This would be especially true if they are down to 4 BFs in the daytime.

You may also wish to consider reverse cycling in response to your return to work. There is some great info on it here. http://kellymom.com/bf/normal/reverse-cycling/

[countingsheep]

Thanks guys, we had a great night last night but that may have been just coincidence...as we hadn't implemented much yet!! (mind you he didn't catnap which is great...meant he was uber grumpy though!...he also didn't graze because I was out til his pre-bed feed

No signs of teeth yet!
He isn't reverse cycling I don't think because I schedule my work so as to feed him myself most of the time.

He slept to 5.15..not even a whimper!...I fed him but stopped him from completely emptying my breast so that he could go back to sleep awake and so that he would still want his morning feed

Thanks everyone, I will keep u posted to see if we can make this a regular happy sleepy place