Author Topic: 5mo A time makes me so confused  (Read 1612 times)

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Offline chenk66

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5mo A time makes me so confused
« on: April 04, 2014, 05:59:35 am »
I'm a new mum.  So maybe I think too much and am asking some silly questions.... Sorry in advance.

DD will be 5 month in 2 days.  For 2 months I've tried my best to extend her naps. 

I tried W2S method:    "Instead of waiting for her to wake, go into her room after thirty minutes.  Before she comes all the way up to consciousness, pat her gently until you see her body relax again.  It could take fifteen or twenty minutes of gentle patting.  If she starts to cry, though, you'll have to send her back to sleep [using your usual settling technique]."
She is an independent sleeper, so I'm not sure whether she is accustomed to the shush/pat method or not.  I never shushed, only pat occasionally.

She is supposed to sink into deep sleep after 20 minutes, isn't she?  But it always takes her more than 1 hour.  The sleep circle transition seems FOREVER.
Now she can do the transition herself I think.  But still, she is hard to sink into deep sleep.  Sometimes she wakes up after a looooong time of slight sleep, seems still tired.  Sometimes she can do another 40 mins after the loooooong period of slight sleep, and wakes up ok.

I guess she might be a bit UT.  So for 5 days I've extended her A time to 2.5hr.  When she woke up, she fussed.  But I had no success to extend the nap.  She may sleep for another 5 or 10 minutes if I kept patting her, that's all.

Her routine on last 3 days:

WU 06.50
S    09.20-10.30  cried.  I tried to extend until 11.05 by patting.  She woke up 10 mins after I stopped.
S    13.10-15.15  woke up happy
S    17.20-17.50  woke her up, happy
BT   20.00
NW 01.10-01.50  made some waking noise then self settled
NW 04.05  feed

WU 07.05
S    09.35-11.35  woke up happy
S    14.15-15.45  cried.  I tried to extend
S    16.00-16.30  woke up happy
BT   19.25
NW 03.10  feed

WU 07.05  woke her up to begin the day.  She seemed tired all the morning
S    09.30-11.15  fussed a lot, tried to extend for 15 mins with no success
S    14.00-15.40  fussed a lot, tried to extend for 20 mins with no success
S    17.20-17.45  woke her up, happy
BT   19.50
NW 00.10-00.30  made some waking noise then self settled
NW 04.10   feed

WU 07.15

Shall I extend her A time any more?  She gets tired at around 2hr mark, sometimes earlier.  She doesn't fight naps.  I cannot tell UT or OT.
Can anyone give me some advice?
« Last Edit: April 04, 2014, 06:13:02 am by chenk66 »

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Re: 5mo A time makes me so confused
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2014, 07:36:18 am »
Hi. Looks like her nap lengths are good but it looks like she is fussing a lot.
I think I would try an additional 10 mins on her A time and see how it goes over a number of days.  If she is slightly UT she could be waking up fussy because she'd like just a little more sleep than she is getting, it looked like she was upset to wake at 1hr 30 but happy after another 30 min nap and her 2hr naps she is happy.
What happens if you get her up when she wakes from a 1hr 30 sleep instead of trying to extend?  Does she stop fussing and come around to a better mood quickly?


Offline chenk66

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Re: 5mo A time makes me so confused
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2014, 08:18:39 am »
She looks tired with a 1hr 30 nap.
Her EAS yesterday and today:

WU 07.20 (BT 19.50)
S     09.50-11.15 ( 1hr25   unhappy, cannot extend, intervened too early??)
S     13.50-16.30 ( 2hr40   wake up happy)
BT   19.45 ( didn't do EBT, my fault)

WU 07.30 (woke her up)
S     09.55-12.25 ( 2hr30   woke her up to eat.....)
S     14.55-16.10 ( 1hr15   she is fussing now.....see if she can self settle)

I got different nap length based on the same A.  She is so easy to get tired I think.
Does a High A time means LSN?

Offline chenk66

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Re: 5mo A time makes me so confused
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2014, 08:28:10 am »
I got her up, she smiled at me immediately.  :-\

So the 1hr15 nap this afternoon is all what she want?  Her nap length is so elusive.  ???

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Re: 5mo A time makes me so confused
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2014, 09:05:38 am »
I would try the additional 10 mins on her first A time, so 2hr 40 and if she sleeps 2hrs or more I would add 10 mins onto the next A time too.
I wouldn't say particularly low sleep needs, she has some super long naps there and a great 12 hr night sleep.  I think she was just a bit UT for that last nap which turned out to be 1hr 15 because she'd had a very long 2hr 30 nap prior to this so was well rested and could have done a longer A time.

I notice you gave just 2 naps where as a couple of days back there were 3 naps - have you now transitioned to 2 naps??
Have you read about the 3-2 nap drop?
All about the 3-2 transition- 5/6 months
Some LOs are ready for it at 5 months but she'd need a longer A time and an earlier BT.


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Re: 5mo A time makes me so confused
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2014, 09:59:28 am »
Thank you for your advice.  I'll try 2hr40 on her first A tomorrow. 
Shall I wake her up if the nap is too long? e.g. more than 2.5hr

Offline chenk66

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Re: 5mo A time makes me so confused
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2014, 10:06:57 am »
Oh thank you.  Yes, I've read about the 3-2 transition.  I do think during the transition, EBT is the king.
If she can do 2*2hr naps, she don't need the CN that day.  But her A time is a bit far from 3hr.  Fingers crossed she won't short nap any more during the transition.  I'm fed up with those short naps....
« Last Edit: April 05, 2014, 11:38:48 am by chenk66 »

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Re: 5mo A time makes me so confused
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2014, 17:09:22 pm »
Shall I wake her up if the nap is too long? e.g. more than 2.5hr
Well, I would be tempted to let her have the long nap/s but then get her to bed early instead of the CN. The problem with the long naps plus CN is of course late BT and the positive aspect to long naps is likely to be a smoother transition to 2 naps.  I'd prob go for the 2 longer naps and EBT.  Let's see if her first nap lengthens with the longer A time.


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Re: 5mo A time makes me so confused
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2014, 12:47:45 pm »
For 5 days I've tried 2hr40 on the first A.  The length of the morning naps was different everyday.

The first day I got a 35min short nap.

Yesterday she woke up at 75min, back to sleep after 10min, and slept another 15 minutes.

I was in the room with her today.  I found that she woke up at 30min mark then sent herself back to sleep 10 minutes later.  After that she tossed and turned every 5-10 minutes and never sank into deep sleep until some noise woke her up.  The morning nap lasted for 1hr45.  I'm not sure it's a sign of UT or OT.  What do you think?

The afternoon nap has the same issue.  The second A is 2hr35.

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Re: 5mo A time makes me so confused
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2014, 18:11:35 pm »
Hmm, I think I'd add another 10 to 15 mins on the A.
What's her mood before and after the nap?


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Re: 5mo A time makes me so confused
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2014, 18:46:13 pm »
She was happy when I got her up today morning but became cranky soon. :-\

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Re: 5mo A time makes me so confused
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2014, 02:48:41 am »
Hi creation, I am curious about what a decent nap should be....
2 sleep circles so 1hr20 or 1hr30 is what I am aiming for.  But she didn't have 2 full sleep circles even though she slept longer than 1hr30.  Maybe that's why she is fussing a lot?
Can it be that she still cannot do the transition during the sleep circles?  I'm not sure whether I explained myself clearly.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2014, 02:50:13 am by chenk66 »

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Re: 5mo A time makes me so confused
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2014, 08:46:19 am »
Ah the ever confusing sleep cycle length. Tracy said most LOs have a cycle of 40 mins (min did, on the dot of 40 min), very many mums here talk of the 45 min nap, that's the length of their LO's sleep cycle.  Some, just to confuse us have a cycle of 35 mins or even 30min. And add to that Tracy also said around 6 months baby's cycle begins to lengthen to become equal with that of an adult (hmm, I think it's around 1.5hr) however on the threads I've read I see most 6 - 12 months still having the 40/45 min cycle and more 12months+ having a longer cycle or maybe 1 hr or 1hr+ depending on the LO.  Plus there are no easy set of rules to follow.

if you are using W2S your LO might be brought out of her cycle early to kick start the next cycle, so in all probability you wouldn't see a clean nap length of 2 or 3 cycles because of the disturbances.  Mine did 2hr naps (3 x 40min cycles) and was miserable if the nap was capped where as others do 2 cycles of 45 min (1.5hr nap).

Did you add another 10 mins to her A time?


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Re: 5mo A time makes me so confused
« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2014, 10:15:17 am »
I'm sure her sleep cycle is 40mins.  She took a lot 40min short nap before.
I have to say I never got a clean nap length of 2 or 3 cycles.  She stirs multiple times when transitioning into the next sleep cycle.  So the nap length seems long enough but she may not rest well?  Maybe I'm thinking too much but this confuses me a lot.

I tended to add another 10 minutes to her first A, but she felt asleep faster than I expected....so here is her routine today:

WU 06:55
S    09:40-11:05 (2hr45 A.   1hr25 nap.   Briefly woke up at 30min mark.  Chatted to herself after woke up.  Doze for another 2 minutes after 15 minutes.  Chatted to herself happily again.  So I got her up and counted those quiet time as A time)
S    13:45-15:15 (2hr40 A.   1hr30 nap.   Mantra cried at 55min mark.  Woke up happy and chatted to herself)
S    17:15-17:50? (2hr A.   35min nap.   She was lying there quietly when I checked.  Not sure when she woke up)

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Re: 5mo A time makes me so confused
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2014, 07:01:41 am »
Those naps would be fine, better if she could sleep soundly through them but they are a decent length really even if one is just under 1.5hrs.  I would try for the 10 min increase you mentioned, it could be all she needs.