8.5 month twins, night waking and early morning waking,

[4isstillnighttime]

Wise words ladies. So, last night:

DH (I love him!) did til midnight, which was one handing C her dummy. She then woke at 12:30 and i gave her her dummy and did a bit of something (back run? Head stroke? Can't remember!) and she went back to sleep til 2:30. Then I fed her and she slept til 3, calpol/ibuprofen and she slept til 5 (brief wake at 4:30 thanks to z!!).
Z woke for feed at 2 then at 4 but settled with dummy and head stroke but took a while (and woke C so had the dreaded 2 twin chorus!!). Then woke at 5:15.

I think I have to pick my battles, like you are all telling me  . So, how is this for a plan:

Set naps at 9 and 1.
In bed asleep by 7.
I usually say I won't feed til 12, but from now on I won't feed til 2 as they have shown they can manage that long so earlier than that it is habit rather than hunger (is that right?).  If they wake before 2 I will resettle a la nippo - shh pat weaning down to nothing
Any time after 5 we will try 10 mins of resettling but will then just call it a day and get up. That half an hour of them dozing lightly while I rub/pat isn't doing anyone any good I don't think.

If I can get them to sleep til 2 for a feed then go back down easily til 5 I will then either try and tackle EW by making morning nap later, or I will try and wean that 2am feed either by making it later and later or by making it shorter and shorter. This is probably about a year away but I like to think one day I will sleep a bit better.......

Am I heading in the right direction do you think?

And as ever, thank you all so much!

[Buttonbobs]

This all sounds like a good plan sweetie. You're doing so well xxx

[Sarah - Enfys' Mum]

That sounds like a very good plan, but personally I don't get Medi out of her cot until 6.  Otherwise, it sounds good. Be strong. You'll get there. I was surprised how easily Medi dropped her 10/11/12 feed once I decided it needed to go! 

[4isstillnighttime]

I know Sarah, and I've tried that....but I am really struggling with things at the moment and an hour of screaming at the beginning of the day is more than I can bear. I'll accept a 5am wake up forever rather than that.

They only did 20 mins this morning and couldn't resettle. c has just woken after 1:20 and screamed for 20 mins despite everything I could do. I gave her meds before her nap so I don't think it's pain. She is so tired, in the end she just sobbed herself into a snotty, heaving little ball and went back to sleep.

This is my fault. I read the f****king no cry sleep solution and it says for naps you should stay in the same room and resettle immediately. Same at night. So that's what I've always done and now they can't resettle, and they fight sleep all the time. I'm just so miserable and we are all so fed up of each other. I feel like screaming sometimes. And all anyone says is that I should let them CIO but even if I wanted to I couldn't because I'm on my own most of the time and I know I couldn't do it on my own. I've lost all confidence in myself and in my babies. I never know what to do when they wake at night - feed, pat, shh, give dummy, not give dummy, give a full feed, give a short feed. They are as confused as me and we are all so miserable. I really, really cannot carry on like this. Nothing is getting better. And I get so anxious about their naps and sleep in general it's all I think about.

[Sarah - Enfys' Mum]

I'm sorry . That's just what I do, and if she screamed every day I wouldnt do it either.  How long is your dh home?  Is there anyone else who could help you for a couple of nights?

(Some days when things are really bad sleep wise, I just say sod it and go out for the day. I figure things aren't going to get any worse so I might as well just do something else).

[babybarr]

Hugs hun. I think your plan sounds good also it'll take the guess work out of things. If you stick to set nap times they (should) will even out over time or that's what I found with ds1 and he was a 45mins napper for ages.

[nippo]

Definitely know what you mean about the anxiety about sleep. I seriously lost a whole stone in a week because of it. I dreaded nap times and bedtime. I wouldn't even let my husband have a shower in the evening just in case they woke up so I completely know how you feel. I don't know if anything in my old thread gives you any ideas.

Ultimately, all the advice is brilliant but you kinda have to feel your way through it a bit because one size doesn't fit all. My experiences might not work the same for you...

But I do think tackling one problem at a time was more manageable for me. Which was why we fed after 4am and the full belly made them sleep for 3 hours and I needed it. (I only fed after 4 if they had gone to sleep at their 1am wake up. If they hadn't, I carried on with shush pat until the did exhaust themselves and gave up).

We got past 4am by reducing milk until we gave them 90 mls and they just went to sleep.

One wake up at a time worked for me, and it was less anxiety for me because I only had to think about the 1am wake and get through that.

[4isstillnighttime]

Sarah, you were right - we all went to the park and had an icecream and made friends with each other again. Then we had a bath together which is always brilliant! I feel sometimes with all this that we are always battling, so it was really nice to just do nice things for a bit. I am going to be tough on them until 2 tonight - no feeding, no patting, just reassuring hand and sleepy words. Then after 2 it's anything goes and hopefully we will get a bit of sleep then.

I've written it down so I have to do it now!!

Once again, thank you. You wouldn't think it but before I had the girls I was v sensible and capable!!!!

[Uglybethy]

Your sensible self is still there... It shines through in your posts actually!
You seem to oscillate between being a woman with a plan and a woman who is feeling so desperate and lost and lonely and furious and frightened and confused etc. I think you are so tuned in when you say that is how your bubbas must be feeling too at times.
As mums we are the receptacles in which our babies project their most difficult feelings and it's up to us to survive and make sense of them, and in doing so our babies are able to do the same. You are really good at doing this as is evident in your postings... Anything they throw at you you survive and not only that but you are able to think of a way in which you can help them out next time.
And you're managing to do that on so little sleep. You're so desperately exhausted and look what you're achieving!
I have nothing sensible or practical to add though I'm afraid. My sense is that you have all the tools in the sleep tool box now it's just a matter of figuring out what is going to work for your girls when and in my honest opinion waiting for them to mature so they can make use of all you're teaching them.
Hang in there you are doing an amazing job!

[4isstillnighttime]

I do get very despairing when naps haven't gone well! Don't really have any sense of perspective on it.

Like Sarah said, I am a resettling prop, which I need to stop. Last night between them they were awake every hour. Twice though they went back to sleep as I walked into the room, which makes me think I should have left it a bit longer. I think tonight I will try not to feed til 2 again, but I have a couple of questions:

How long should I leave it before I go to them? Currently I leave 1 minute, is that too short? And then have minimal intervention.
C at the moment (I think because v OT, she woke up at 9, 10, 11 and 12 last night and hadn't had great naps) is escalating v quickly into a full melt down at night wakings. I had her the dummy and she bats it away but if I hold her flailing arms and put it in her mouth she settles almost instantly. I will get more dummies today so she can find them quicker, but next time that happens shall I just keep handing it to her until eventually she puts it in herself? It will involve a fairly protracted tantrum I think but I will suck that up if it's the right thing to do (or make DH do it!!)

[babybarr]

Waking every hr nearly always is discomfort from my experience.

Not sure what I'd do wrt the dummy. I'd prob hold the arms if that helps.

[Uglybethy]

Get more dummies... Good plan. I used to try and make the resettling as quick as possible to give me the best chance of going back to sleep.... So I would put dummy in hand and guide hand to mouth. So yes, I would calm the flailing hands too. When they escalate so quickly like that I'm not sure anything is gained by making them find their own dummy. Can do dummy replug practice during the day too.
Hugs for last night and for the times that you got up and went in but they had already resettled when you did! You will do that a lot while this transition is happening... No harm in it just annoying as hell at the time!

[4isstillnighttime]

It's like a dummy ball pit in there now!! I'll try dummy in hand and guide to mouth and see how that goes.

They are just chattering away to each other in there at the moment, it's hilarious! Z has just learned to clap so she is clapping and C is blowing raspberries. What they aren't doing is sleeping!! But it's cute. Twins is pretty ok sometimes!!

[Sarah - Enfys' Mum]

It is a lovely age really

I have a pretty high tolerance for fussy crying and it takes a lot for me to go in to her. So as soon as I think she's in trouble I go in, but if it's just fussing, I'll leave her a long time.

[babybarr]

I sometimes wonder if twins can be more demanding for mummy during the night as they get less attention and cuddles during the day than a singleton would.  I know they know no difference but it's something that came to mind.