how can I implement a solid bedtime and flexible routine at the same time?

[Bunny mom]

My bb is now 16 weeks old. I try to implement EAS routine since 10 weeks with not much suceess. She is now on 4hour EAS (just 1 week ago). Her wu time is 9. I walk her to sleep. She has problem with short nap and EW. The morning and afternoon nap is ok. But she always fight to sleep at bedtime. I think the problem is OT.
 I have a question about bedtime. I have to start the day at the same time every day (say 9am). Then follow a flexible routine base on my bb's sleepy cue (not see the clock). It's ok if the 45 monster not arrive. Then I have to cut down the next A time. So the bedtime will have to be earlier right? At the same time, I have to keep enough A time right before bedTime (2hour after the last nap). I reaaly don't understand how can I make a solid bedtime everyday?Can someone explain for me please?
Thanks in advance 

[Sarah - Enfys' Mum]

Our ideal bedtime is 7 pm, but some nights it's 6:30 if she hasn't napped well. Sometimes I have to wake her from her nap so that she will be ready for bed at 7. (Later bedtime means a guaranteed 5 am wake up here).

[Buttonbobs]

With an EASY routine it is not really strictly possible to have a fixed BT. It becomes more or less possible once you have settled into an appropriate EASY for your LO at the age they are at, but with shorter naps it won't work again until you tweak the EASY to suit your LO.

Would you like to post your EAS for the last couple/few days so we can take a look?

[Bunny mom]

Thank you for your replies!
On a good day when I can extend nap

9: wake up
11-13: nap 1 (only take 1-2min to walk to sleep)
Extend nap at 45m by APOP (pick up and walk for about 10-15m then she's back to sleep)

13:wake
15h-16h30: nap 2 (Extend nap at 45m by APOP)

16h30:wake
18h30-19:00 catnap (it's harder to make her nap at this time, I have to hold her for entire nap, but only 20-30m, never 45 m)

19:00 wake
20:30 start windown (she usually fusses and cries for this, when calm down, she still open her eyes for about 30 minutes when I still hold and walk before closes her eyes. I still hold her for another 10 minute, then I feel she jerk her body and cry, I have to walk again)
So bedtime is usually a 1 hour war for me
That's a good day. On bad day, she can cry for 30 minutes when in my arms and I feed her to sleep and it takes anothee 30 m for her to actually sleep.
Why does my bb have to fight sleep so much?

[Buttonbobs]

9: wake up11-13: nap 1 (only take 1-2min to walk to sleep)Extend nap at 45m by APOP (pick up and walk for about 10-15m then she's back to sleep)13:wake15h-16h30: nap 2 (Extend nap at 45m by APOP)

45 min wu from naps can indicate that LO is not quite tired enough when being put down to sleep. Perhaps try extending those first two A times by ten/fifteen minutes and see if that makes a difference, so your day would be a bit more like this:

9am WU
Nap 1: 11.15 (hopefully for 2 hours) - 1.15
Nap 2: 3:30 (hopefully for at least 1.5 hours) - 5/5.30

19:00 wake20:30 start windown (she usually fusses and cries for this, when calm down, she still open her eyes for about 30 minutes when I still hold and walk before closes her eyes. I still hold her for another 10 minute, then I feel she jerk her body and cry, I have to walk again)So bedtime is usually a 1 hour war for me That's a good day. On bad day, she can cry for 30 minutes when in my arms and I feed her to sleep and it takes anothee 30 m for her to actually sleep.

It might be that she needs a bit less day sleep overall and is ready for that CN to be dropped. If you get two good naps you could try going without a CN and aim for BT earlier, say 7.30 (with winddown starting at 7pm).

pick up and walk for about 10-15m then she's back to sleep

On other quick thought, when you're resettling from naps by walking her round, you might be setting yourself up for her to depend on you to resettle between naps. Could you try using shh/pat instead?

Shush-pat - How to

What do you think?

[Bunny mom]

Thank you,  Buttonbobs!
I have tried to extend A time like you suggested. At first, I think it did not work. She still wakes at 45m. But when I turned back to 2h A, I can't put her sleep after 45m. I guess UT, right?


Her wake up now is earlier than before (just a few day). I aim for it to be 8 am but bcs of ew it can be 6 or 7. When her wake time is 9, she also wake at 6, 7 or 8 but I walk her back to sleep. I don't have enough energy for that now.
I still don't understand her bedtime problem. I experiment with windown from different time (range from 1h - 2h) since the last nap. Fight anyway. Even 3 hour. Sometime she cries as soon as I dim the light, sometimes after she is dosing off, she suddenly cries again. I want to begin weaning her off AP but bcs of my inconsistent with bedtime routine (alternative btw rock/nurse so that she stop crying), I always feel hesistant. It's my fault for not seeing it through, I know. It's so unfair to her.

[Buttonbobs]

What has your easy looked like for the last couple of days. You can do this, just keep extending slowly and if you keep going you should get a longer nap xx

[Bunny mom]

Hi. I have sleep trained my bb for a week to get rid of props. I have other topic at pupd section. We are having a bit improvement. I will create other topic to ask about her current EASY. Is it ok?

[Buttonbobs]

Of course it's ok

If you want let me know when you've posted and I'll have a look there xx