Author Topic: 6.5 month night waking  (Read 898 times)

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Offline Havlav

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6.5 month night waking
« on: April 08, 2014, 10:29:50 am »
Hi
After introducing the EASY routine and using PU/PD I have seen a great improvement in my sons daytime naps, he will go in his cot awake and I won't hear anything from him for 1.5-2hrs. However, the night waking does not appear to be improving.
He goes down at 7pm after bath, story and feed. He will then wake between 11-11.30 at which point he is hungry, I will feed him and he will go back off. He is then waking again at 1am, 4am and 7am. 1am he doesn't tend to be hungry but 4am and 7am I do still feed.
Any suggestions how to reduce the night wakings? If he isn't hungry we use PU/PD to settle him. 

Offline Skadiver13

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Re: 6.5 month night waking
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2014, 18:31:24 pm »
Hi hun, sorry your post was missed. Can you post your routine in EAS format please?
My dreamed for Angel Baby DD (other than dreaded 40min naps) Born 4/30/16
Reflux, MSPI, Love my Spirited,textbook little munchkin DS Born 5/17/2012



**Siobhan**

Offline Havlav

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Re: 6.5 month night wakings
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2014, 08:14:34 am »
Hi,

6.30am - wake
7am - breast feed
7.15am - activity (solids breakfast 8am)
9.30-11am - sleep
11am - breast feed (this is often a quick 5-10min feed as ds too interested in looking at the world around him)
11.15am - activity (solids lunch 1pm)
2-4pm - sleep
4pm - breast feed (again as at 11am this is quick feed as he doesn't seem that interested often)
4.15pm - activity (solids dinner 5.30pm)
6.30pm - bath & story
7pm - breast feed and bed

After 7pm the wakings could be anytime, frequently he will wake once before midnight, then once/twice more before 6-6.30am.

We had 5/6 nights of bed at 7pm, wake at 1am hungry then wake at 6-6.30am, however we have regressed from this and for the past 5 nights he has woke 3-4 times between 7pm and 6.30am.

I am conscious of him getting enough milk however he will never have both sides even first off in a morning, or if he takes both sides he is then sick. The daytime feeds are proving difficult as he shows little interest in feeding, is on and off the breast, and will frequently be sick afterwards. I have tried increasing his solid food intake but this doesn't appear too successful!


Offline Skadiver13

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Re: 6.5 month night waking
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2014, 16:18:31 pm »
Hi hun, in regards to solids by increasing those you will acutally lower the amount he's taking. I would honestly take away all solids right now. He doesn't need them at all at this age and maybe we can get him taking more feeds. As for the being sick has he always done this?
My dreamed for Angel Baby DD (other than dreaded 40min naps) Born 4/30/16
Reflux, MSPI, Love my Spirited,textbook little munchkin DS Born 5/17/2012



**Siobhan**

Offline Havlav

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Re: 6.5 month night waking
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2014, 20:58:50 pm »
Ah ok, thanks for that. I had been advised by our hv that by 7 months he should be having 3 solid meals a day (will be 7mths next week). No he has never really been a sicky baby, in fact I could probably count on one hand the number of times he has been sick, it seems as tho when offered milk in the day he likes the comfort and therefore has milk when not hungry / tummy full so the minute he rolls around he brings it back!

Offline Skadiver13

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Re: 6.5 month night waking
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2014, 22:54:31 pm »
Hi hun I certainly don't want to contradict your HV but I've honestly never heard that advice. I'll have some other mods take a peak at your post to see if they have any advice but I know most lo's aren't on 3 solid meals until 12 months. Mine wasn't for sure because he has a very small appetite so any solids would reduce his milk intake quite a bit.  But every lo is different. My cousin was doing three meals at 7 but it didn't affect her sons milk intake at all he was a big kid and had a hefty appetite. I always suggest at this age removing solids if you see the milk intake go down but if you don't see a change after reducing the solids than it's ok to bring them back in.

As for the bringing it back up sticking to a 4hr Easy at this point will help that. So only feeding when he should be hungry (other than if he was sick etc.) and not letting him snack throughout the day on your milk.
My dreamed for Angel Baby DD (other than dreaded 40min naps) Born 4/30/16
Reflux, MSPI, Love my Spirited,textbook little munchkin DS Born 5/17/2012



**Siobhan**

Offline creations

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Re: 6.5 month night waking
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2014, 08:30:37 am »
I certainly don't want to contradict your HV but I've honestly never heard that advice. I'll have some other mods take a peak at your post to see if they have any advice but I know most lo's aren't on 3 solid meals until 12 months.
Whilst I don't fully agree with a HV advising 3 solids meals a day by 7 months (because it puts mums under pressure to achieve this when baby may not be ready) I don't think it is as unusual as Siobhan. It all depends on the individual baby, whilst some will be ready and eager for the solids not all will be ready for 3 meals and some at 7 months will show no interest in solids at all, which is also fine, there is no hurry.

However if there are NWs from hunger and LO is being sick from too full tummy I agree to cut back on solids and see where things go from there. Milk is without doubt the primary food until 12 months old whether LO has 3 servings of solids per day or not so you don't want the milk intake to drop and it's milk that will see your LO through the night (not solids).
My advice would be to move the evening solids meal much earlier (or drop it altogether for now), there are 2 ways to do this, either
- move the milk feed early, to just before the 2pm nap, this makes milk E less that 4hrs apart and not ideal at this age, more appropriate for a bit older really.  Then at 4pm after nap, the solids meal.  This leaves LO hungry enough for BT milk just before bed which should improve the intake and help him through the night.
or
- keep the milk at 4pm after the nap (this should keep a good milk intake as he should be hungry at this time for it), and offer solids at 4.30pm. Although an hour has not passed since the milk feed it doesn't matter so much as solids at this age are just for learning about textures and tastes so it doesn't matter if he is not overly hungry for it or doesn't take much. With the solids at 4.30 (and a smaller amount) he should be ready for his BT milk.  This would be my preferred approach at this age.

I would also look at what he is eating for his solids. Remove any whole grain foods which are difficult to digest and can fill baby up too much for them to be hungry for milk (in the UK whole grains are not advised), look at any foods which might be filling without offering much in the way of nutrition and calories (eg rice) again this makes baby full without providing what he needs, and look at any foods which might be suspect in making him throw up. For example I tried mine on a rice cake a couple of times as a little snack and every time he threw up, rice cakes seem bland and harmless enough but were certainly the culprit in our case.

Check he has enough to drink, offer a sippy of water to make sure he is not dehydrated going to bed, mine wasn't much good at using the sippy in the early days so I also offered a bottle of water, for you this might be offering the breast for a drink.

Whilst mine was not a big baby and also didn't take a lot of milk, in our case reducing solids didn't increase milk intake, he took the same amount of milk with or without solids so the solids were an addition to his calorific intake for the day, not a replacement, and I believe this is as it should be, solids add to baby's intake but should not take away form the milk intake - whatever size/weight baby is.

Hope something here helps.


Offline *Ali*

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Re: 6.5 month night waking
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2014, 07:34:16 am »
The advice in the uk is to gradually move to three meals a day between 8-9mo so I wouldn't feel pressured to offer three meals already. Do you know your HVs reasoning behind saying he should be on 3 solid meals? I often find they just recommend what they did and there is no scientific reasoning behind it at all.  :-\
http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/pregnancy-and-baby/Pages/solid-foods-weaning.aspx#close

The WHO say on average 615 kcals should be from breast milk and 200 kcals from solid food between 6-8mo so you definitely want to concentrate on the breast milk. WHO also say that if solid food is displacing more fatty breast milk then it is best to cut back on solids for a bit to let milk intake recover.
http://whqlibdoc.who.int/paho/2003/a85622.pdf?ua=1

What about offering the second side a bit after the first to give time for the first lot of milk to go down a bit? Maybe before or after the solid food?

Is it possible the digestion of the newly introduced solid food is disturbing him at night?

Maybe he is too distracted to BF in the day. Have you tried feeding in the still drk bedroom as soon as he wakes from naps so there are no distractions?

How long has it been since you started the PUPD? Maybe he is still getting used to independent sleep. Are you doing PUPD for long at the 1am waking?

Feeds at 11pm and 4am are really not excessive at 6-7mo so maybe he really does need those feeds for now.
Cadan Dec 2009 and Colby Aug 2011


Offline Havlav

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Re: 6.5 month night waking
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2014, 20:01:03 pm »
Hi all,

Thank you so much for your replies, definitely food for thought and interesting reading on the links provided  :)

Our HV advised 3 meals a day and to increase solid food consumption when I mentioned the increase in night wakings, at the time I did think that a few spoons of fruit / veg would have less calorific content than milk so didn't see how it would reduce hunger in the night but was willing to give anything a go!

When I say 3 meals a day I may not have been very clear, his meals are only small snack type meals e.g. A tbsp of porridge at breakfast, fruit/veg tbsp yogurt at lunch, fruit/veg or toast at tea time. He loves to try new things and enjoys picking up / feeling different textures in his hands. One main reason I give him the '3 meals' is that he shouts and attempts to take food out our hands if we eat in front of him and he isn't included.

Over the past few days I have reduced the solid food aspect slightly and seen an increased interest in the daytime milk feeds. I'm not sure if this is linked to reduced solids or the fact I have started giving him his daytime feeds from a cup so he can not only feed but also see what's going on around him but it is progress none the less. This is also a massive achievement as despite every effort from me, dad and grandparents and the purchase of a whole host of bottles / cups he had never really taken milk from anything other than the breast.


The longest PU/PD ever takes is 20mins, during the day or pre-midnight if we need to PU/PD it is usually only 5-10mins, it is the waking between 1-3am that usually requires the most input / effort to settle!

I'm not sure of the cause of this but for the last week he has also been sleeping later in a morning, the 6-6.30am wake up has been between 7-8am instead of 6-6.30am.

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Re: 6.5 month night waking
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2014, 20:50:58 pm »
That sounds good. 

Maybe offer finger food only at some meals so he feels involved but has to work for it ;)
Cadan Dec 2009 and Colby Aug 2011