Author Topic: He's outdone himself now - COMPLETE nap refusal at 13 months  (Read 3915 times)

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Offline LovelyLilyandJack

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He's outdone himself now - COMPLETE nap refusal at 13 months
« on: April 09, 2014, 05:07:57 am »
I have posted on this forum many times about my now 13 month old who is very low sleep needs as I'm always trying to get him to sleep more.  Well, he's outdone himself now and has been refusing naps at any time of the day for a week and the last 2 days he's had no day sleep at all  :o  :o  :o

He's actually handling it extremely well, is happy,  playing independently and going to bed fine at night and sleeping around 11 - 11.25 hours. But surely that can't last?! In fact I'm just lying here now wondering if he's going to go back to sleep again after waking from a 10hr 45 night, so perhaps he's started shortening his nights already.

A bit about him. He's definitely has lower than average sleep needs.  Until about 1yr old he averaged 12hrs sleep in 24. Sometimes we'd get 12.5 hours but every week we'd get 2hr long nws at around 3am and most nights he'd cry out at least once but resettle himself so on average he had less.  After his birthday we toughened up on WIWO at night, and he simultaneously started sleeping better at night and shortening his naps in the day. I'm not sure which came first. He seemed to drop his overall sleep needs a bit more too and now does 11.5hrs in 24  It's sort of spiralled from there. Naps continued to shorten til they got down to 45-50 minutes, then he started fighting them and now he's had 2 days at nursery where they've tried every trick they know to get him to sleep and he just won't.

What confuses me is that he doesn't NORMALLY fight naps if he's OT. He usually just passes out once he's in bed. But he must be getting OT by now?! He's an independent sleeper as well, but has twice almost fallen asleep on my husband this week, but then refused to sleep in the cot. He's had one day when he had a broken but long sleep in the car but otherwise it's been one very short nap a day all week which we've had to fight for, or which he's had in the car.

How on earth do I deal with this? He usually wakes any time between 5.45 and 6.30, depending on when BT was. 11hrs is about the most he'll do at night so I try not to pd before 6.45, but normally BT is 7.30. His nap used to be set at 12.15 cos anything earlier gave short naps but this week I've tried everything from 10am to 2.30pm.

Is it possible he's trying to drop his nap??!! It sounds crazy to me, though I have heard of babies doing that before from his age, so not impossible.  A friend at work had a very HSN son and then her daughter stopped napping just after her first birthday, and instead would just take a short nap every now and again on the go or during quiet time. Apparently my brother and I stopped napping very early too. OR is he hugely OT and just handling it very well?! If so, how do I fix it?!



Offline HenaV

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Re: He's outdone himself now - COMPLETE nap refusal at 13 months
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2014, 05:16:03 am »
Hi!

Reading your post, my gut instinct was that it was developmental (given he is 12m) and now he's horribly OT - the nearly falling asleep on your hd and then refusing to nap is IMO a bit if a sign.

Whenever we get sleep shenanigans like this, we have to tough it out and use WI/WO

So I'd gauge when you need to nap him, I'd be tempted to go as early as 10,30/11am.

If the nap is broken or doesn't happen I'd EBT at 6pm. If you get a decent nap, keep the day at 13h max

What do you think?

Hena

Offline LovelyLilyandJack

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Re: He's outdone himself now - COMPLETE nap refusal at 13 months
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2014, 05:58:58 am »
Thank you for the quick reply  :) Yes, OT is definitely the most likely explanation.  The only thing is that if I do BT any earlier than 6.45 he fights it til then anyway. Plus he's not ever slept more than 11.5 hours at night so the absolute best a 6pm bedtime would get us is a 5.30 WU the next day and most likely a 4.45 - 5 wake up which makes for a very long day tomorrow.

We did use WIWO quite strictly on Sunday and he did eventually go to sleep,  so we'll pick that back up again (he's been in nursery in between). How long should we do it for in one go? I haven't even been able to AP a nap before 10.30 for months now so how do I know what's UT nap resistance and what's stubbornness?! My daughter is left downstairs by herself while we do it so during the week we can't go on for hours, but I don't want to keep giving up either!
« Last Edit: April 09, 2014, 06:06:53 am by LovelyLilyandJack »



Offline j.and.e

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Re: He's outdone himself now - COMPLETE nap refusal at 13 months
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2014, 06:30:34 am »
Can you get him to sleep in the car and transfer? E.g out for the morning with a picnic then drive back xx

Offline HenaV

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Re: He's outdone himself now - COMPLETE nap refusal at 13 months
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2014, 06:37:13 am »
We have previously done this to get over the OT and get back on track:

Car nap: 9.30 (capped at 20mins)
Nap: 12.30 (uncapped)

I terms of how long to do Wi/WO out for, my DD has the will of iron, so we have been known to do it for the majority of her nap time. It may feel pointless on day 1 and maybe even days 2 and 3 but LOs soon get the message and will just think 'what's the pint' and go
To sleep.

If it's worked before for you, I think you need to forgot it and stick with it

Hth x

Offline LovelyLilyandJack

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Re: He's outdone himself now - COMPLETE nap refusal at 13 months
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2014, 06:46:50 am »
So start at 10.30 / 11 and keep going til he falls asleep for today? What if he just doesn't?! It took 1.5 hours the other day, and that was when we knew he was tired. Should we keep going beyond that if need be?

If today doesn't go well I might try an early car nap tomorrow.  My husband has both kids and no car today so there's going to be a limit as to what he can do I think.



Offline HenaV

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Re: He's outdone himself now - COMPLETE nap refusal at 13 months
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2014, 09:19:30 am »
I would but just like my DD I have a will beyond iron!!!


Offline LovelyLilyandJack

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Re: He's outdone himself now - COMPLETE nap refusal at 13 months
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2014, 19:38:28 pm »
Well, my husband was walking jack around this morning at 9.30ish (after 4hrs 15 A time) to see if he was tired cos he'd started fussing, and he started dropping off. He pd for a nap straight away, and J fought it for 45 minutes and then only slept for 30. So, yeah, OT.  He then stuffed up I think cos I'd have tried again for a nap 3 hours later, at 2ish, but he wasn't organised enough,  was out, and only started trying to get him to sleep at 3.30, and then he only slept 20 minutes. J was in the buggy for an hour before this,  but eating a snack and not necessarily moving by the sounds of it.  Anyway, he didn't do tea til 5.30, so J wasn't in bed til 7. He was clearly tired before bed and settled straight away. Still a long day with very little sleep :(

What do you think I should do tomorrow? I'm back in charge then ;) Try for a nap in the cot after about 4hrs A time? Or something different?



Offline TB9

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Re: He's outdone himself now - COMPLETE nap refusal at 13 months
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2014, 19:48:40 pm »
Are his canines still cutting?  Nap refusals were at an all time high with dd1 while her canines were cutting.

Offline LovelyLilyandJack

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Re: He's outdone himself now - COMPLETE nap refusal at 13 months
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2014, 20:00:10 pm »
Yes, they are actually.  I didn't mention it cos they don't seem to be affecting night sleep, he's settling fine for bedtime without meds and aren't affecting his mood in the day.  Though he has been biting a lot today.  He's got the peak of three through and I think the fourth is currently cutting,  or about to. None are through at their widest point yet.  Do you think that could be a factor then, even though they don't seem to bother him at any other time?



Offline TB9

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Re: He's outdone himself now - COMPLETE nap refusal at 13 months
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2014, 20:30:22 pm »
I would say yes.  They really messed with dd1s sleep until the widest part was through, she had ews which had never happened before, and she started refusing naps then too.  Have you tried meds before nap?

She also refused naps and couldnt be APd no matter how tired she was when she had an ear infection...even though she was massively ot, she just wouldnt nod off in the car, or in my arms.  And when I could get her to sleep she only slept for 30min or less.  Night sleep was affected then too, so maybe just teeth in Js case.

Offline LovelyLilyandJack

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Re: He's outdone himself now - COMPLETE nap refusal at 13 months
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2014, 04:45:48 am »
I have tried meds before a nap but they didn't seem to make a difference and cos he's just cut four molars as well and we gave a lot of meds for those over a long period I wanted to give him a break.  However, we often only remember to give them just before wd for a nap, so they won't have kicked in by pd. I might try again today and give them a bit earlier.

Not sure what's going on with him this morning - he's been coughing since 5.10 and then at 5.30 started moaning, then went quiet, then started crying at 5.40.  When do I count as WU time?  He normally cries as soon as he's awake.

Edit: Also, do you think it's worth me trying for a nap after about 4hrs A if that's when he got tired yesterday, or something else? Just thinking that's about 2 hours early and he wouldn't normally nap past about 35 minutes with that early a nap anyway.  I'm dreading the UT/ OT loop we've been in so many times, but at the same time don't want to keep him up if he's tired.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2014, 05:19:02 am by LovelyLilyandJack »



Offline HenaV

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Re: He's outdone himself now - COMPLETE nap refusal at 13 months
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2014, 06:02:05 am »
Iiwm I'd try for a nap after 4h if that is when he's tired a
D cap it at 20m and then pd 2.5h after WU from this nap (uncapped)

Good luck x

Offline LovelyLilyandJack

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Re: He's outdone himself now - COMPLETE nap refusal at 13 months
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2014, 13:48:01 pm »
Ok.  We went out a bit early this morning cos J was starting to get fussy and tired by 8.30ish (about 3hrs A, assuming he woke at 5.30). He almost fell asleep within 5 minutes of getting in the car at 9, but I had to stop for petrol so it was 9.10 before he was asleep. Because that was a bit earlier than planned (and cos I got lost and couldn't stop the car), I let him have 30 minutes rather than 20. He then spent most of his A time in the buggy, and in the car close to 2hrs 30 A without him falling asleep.

I pd for his second nap at 2hrs 50 cos he'd had a bit of a longer sleep in the morning and he didn't seem tired. He did a poo within about 15 minutes,  so by the time I'd changed him and pd again he'd been up for 3hrs 10. He fought it for longer today (1hr after second pd), but was less worked up so I think he actually wasn't tired when I pd.  Anyway, he slept for 1hr 15 in the end :)

Today has been: WU: 5.30 (maybe)
A: 3hrs 40
S: 30 mins 9.10 - 9.40
A: 4hrs 10
S: 1hr 15 (1.50 - 3.05)
BT: ???
« Last Edit: April 10, 2014, 14:04:50 pm by LovelyLilyandJack »



Offline HenaV

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Re: He's outdone himself now - COMPLETE nap refusal at 13 months
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2014, 14:07:49 pm »
I always work to a 13h day max, so for me it would be a 6.30pm BT or earlier if I thought R was OT
x