Starting 9 MO on PU/PD

[First Time KY Dad]

Sorry, but what's DH stand for?

And ST =

Is this your first LO?

Yap it's our first! He's the first great-grandchild on both side of the family!

One day he will surprise you and take himself off to sleep.

I can't wait for that to happen soon enough! 

Honestly, once you are in a more age appropriate routine, naps will be much easier so will BT.
Are you only doing pu/pd for BT? When we sleep trained it was much easier to start with first nap, we could see results within days. Can you choose a weekend or take a fee days off to help your wife out and do ST then for all naps? I would only do it once you are in a better routine through.

My wife tries to do PU/PD for naps too and that's the main source of her frustration. For some reason LO is extra clingy with mom and we think it's because he can smell the milk... but with me, he's out of luck 

As we speak, wife just texted me that baby is struggling to nap again...

[Florena49]

Sorry
 DH- dear husband
ST- sleep training

I dont have experience with pu/pd, but with getting LO to nap or nap extension if they arent tired enough there is a lot of screaming, for us it is very loud and hard screaming.

Im sure one of the mods will have a look at your routine and advise on the best way forward.

[nevinsmama]

As I said, the new routine will take time to settle in. Be consistent and give this a week. Don't give up!

[First Time KY Dad]

Day 4 showed improvement as well, except his day was totally out of whack!

First on PU/PD, took about 30 minutes but he was rather fussy this time. After about 15 PDs, I picked him up and walked around his room for just a little bit, turned the lights back on so he could see me, and he was willing to calm down in my arms and I put him in bed just as he was drifting off. No contest there.

However, he woke up every 45 min and after midnight mommy decided to take baby in bed and slept in the guest room.  Guess it's up to me to be on the night watch the next couple days. TGIF!!!

And here's LO's schedule on Day 4:

4/10:
06:45-09:15 Woke up, BF, went straight back to sleep
09:15-11:25 A time, breakfast
11:25-12:10 Had trouble napping. Wife nursed him to sleep after an hour of struggle
12:10-12:40 Nap
12:40-16:00 Lunch, A time
16:00-16:15 Mini Nap
16:15-17:00 Woke up from his nap and had trouble going back to sleep
17:00-20:00 Dinner, Family Time
20:00-20:30 Bath, BF
20:30-21:00 Nap (wasn't expecting a 3rd nap, but my guess is to make up for the mini nap earlier)
21:00-22:15 Got up and Unwind (read 3 books and played tickcles and peekaboo)
22:15-22:50 Bedtime
22:50-23:45 Woke up #1, put my hands on him and went back to sleep
23:45-00:30 Woke up #2, wife tried to follow PU/PD for about 30 minutes and decided to take him to bed

4/11:
00:30-08:00 Asleep for the rest of the night... 

[Florena49]

Im no expert on this, but your LO is 9 months, on average awake time for babies of that age is around 3.5 hours, some do more. awake time is from eyes open to eyes closed.

So from the day you posted it looks like you are trying for a nap too soon and the reason your qife struggled for an hoir is because she is trying to get your LO to sleep  and he just isnt tired enough so eventually he fell asleep after nearly 3 hours of Awake time and he had a short nap.
If i was you i would stick to 3.15 mins A time for a good 3 days and see if that gets you a good morning nap.

So you would aim for something like this

9.00 wu
12.15 nap

If you get a decent nap then you would do another 3.15 of awake time.

If after 3 days the nap is still short then i would add another 15 mins so 3.30 mins awake time.

At this age and as your trying to establish a more robust routine you might have to do a bit of clock watching because eye rubbing and all other cues are often not reliable.

Hope this helps

[Florena49]

Thought this might also help

It's a great idea to bookmark this as a quick reference as your baby gets older and needs to adjust their A time:

Here is a general guideline of what you can expect regarding awake time for your lo: (remember some babies get a little more, some a little less. It's just a rough guideline)

Awake time for babies

Newborn 50-60 mins
1 month 60 mins - 1 hour 15 mins
2 months 1 hour 15 - 20 mins
3 months 1 hour 20 - 30 mins
4 months 1 hour 45 mins - 2 hours
5 months 2 hours - 2 hours 30 mins
Late 5 months/early 6 months 2 hours 30 mins - 3 hours
6.5 - 7 months 2 hours 45 mins - 3 hours 15 mins. Some are getting more.
8 - 10 months 3 - 4 hours. Some are getting more.
11 - 12 months 3 hours 30 mins - 4 hours 30 mins. Some are getting more if moved early to 1 nap


***Remember these are guidelines, NOT rules, so if you feel that your baby is not yet ready for these A times, please do not force them, as this will cause further problems***

[First Time KY Dad]

Thanks, Florena49. I plan on experimenting with his A time this weekend.

Since my wife is still resisting some of the suggestions I made, I decided to take it upon myself and will watch LO all weekend. We'll see how it goes... 

[Haribo2012]

Hi totally agree with florena49 your A times need to be higher, your LO could show signs of 2-1 nap transistion in next couple of months so you need to be working to longer A times, and sleep signs at this age are unreliable, mine used to rub his eyes if he was bored, thirsty, needed a snack etc.
I'd personally try hard not to allow a 3rd nap as this will make your BT hard as a little power nap will boost LO, never be afraid of EBT they work wonders for a few days. 
As I think has been mentioned try to stick to a 13 hour day on good naps and 12 hour day on short naps.

Hope it all goes well keep up the good work sounds like your doing great. 

[First Time KY Dad]

Hi Everyone,

Hope you all have a good weekend. The weather is beautiful here in KY in the past 2 days, mid to high 70s. Likewise, BT has been amazing for LO. For the past 2 nights, we would start our pre-sleep routine at around 8, and by 9:15 he's out and won't wake up until 8-8:30 next morning. I slept on the floor next to him and would jump up to comfort him when I hear a sound. 90% of the times he falls asleep on his own without my intervention. I'm a proud papa (a little sleepless but that's okay)...

BUT I HATE NAPS!!!

He's been refusing both morning and afternoon naps (total 4 this weekend). I got lucky only once and but other 3 naps he would cry and cry even louder until the wife steps in and nurses him to sleep.

Using Florena49's suggestion, I would watch the clock for 3-3.5 A time, and start the unwinding/calming process about 30 minutes prior. You can see he slowly calms and is ready to settle. But right before he falls asleep in all 3 naps, he would suddenly jerk around really hard as if something scares him. Then after 30-45 min of struggle he goes into the hysterical cries and my wife comes in and helps.

Any ideas? I suspect he might be teething as he started drooling a bunch on Thursday. Teething or not, how do you ladies conquer naps?

Thanks,
Hank

[ZacsMumme]

Sorry to just pop on. I've skimmed through this thread and this is the problem

He's been refusing both morning and afternoon naps (total 4 this weekend). I got lucky only once and but other 3 naps he would cry and cry even louder until the wife steps in and nurses him to sleep.

Using Florena49's suggestion, I would watch the clock for 3-3.5 A time, and start the unwinding/calming process about 30 minutes prior. You can see he slowly calms and is ready to settle. But right before he falls asleep in all 3 naps, he would suddenly jerk around really hard as if something scares him. Then after 30-45 min of struggle he goes into the hysterical cries and my wife comes in and helps.

At 9 mths LOs are still babies but they are also smart. They learn from their experiences and because every nap at 30-45 mins your wife steps in and bf to sleep your LO has 'learnt' that he needs to cry for that long to get what he needs to sleep. Does that make sense?

I KNOW it is hell listening to your baby cry. I've had two refluxers, one of which screamed and screamed all night long for the first 8 mths. Once we was well though and I stuck to not rocking to sleep we made fast progress but you have to not give in.. The reason BT is working is because you have been consistent. And dare I say it, LO is shattered come BT.

Sleeping on a mattress, or lying down next to the cot for naps is ok, humming, singing and gently patting in the cot are all alternatives if PU/pd is too much for your wife. Unfortunately though, at 9 mths there IS going to be a lot of crying. Your baby wants to sleep, gets OT, gets angry..but eventually if you are consistent learns to settle on his own. 

If you suspect teething medicate (pain meds) 20 mins before the nap....teething gel can be helpful too.

A huge well done to you, it's hard work st, and even harder being the one driving it.
 

[Florena49]

Well done, BT sounds like a dream! I know its early days, but try and stay in bed when you hear LO stirring, if you jump in straight away you arent giving him an opportunity to figure it out himself, as you know if he really needs you he will let you know.
In general nights get better first, you know you have sleep hormones on you side in the night, naps will just need some working on.
I absolutely agree with Sarah that you cant give in and to be honest its unfair to let him cry for an 30 minutes and then feed him, i would do everything to get him to sleep even if its just for 20 mins, but not feed.

Usually for naps you do your wind down as usual, as you said he was getting sleepy around 3.5 hours and pop him in the cot, when he cries you try and soothe him and do whatever works for you, soothing/ pu/pd etc.  you try to get him to sleep for 45 minutes if he hasnt had a nap then you get him up, leave the room and have some activity, only feed him if he needs feeding,i would do it after he has calmed. Then you try for the second nap the same way when you can see that LO is getting tired again.
Dont worry about the routine too much and dont worry ifhe doesnt nap at all the first day, it is normal.

Good luck, you have done well so far

[samanthabobbie]

Appreciating this post.  My husband and I are going through the same thing with our almost-8 month old.  Looks like you guys are making progress though! 

[First Time KY Dad]

I absolutely agree with Sarah that you cant give in and to be honest its unfair to let him cry for an 30 minutes and then feed him, i would do everything to get him to sleep even if its just for 20 mins, but not feed.

Usually for naps you do your wind down as usual, as you said he was getting sleepy around 3.5 hours and pop him in the cot, when he cries you try and soothe him and do whatever works for you, soothing/ pu/pd etc.  you try to get him to sleep for 45 minutes if he hasnt had a nap then you get him up, leave the room and have some activity, only feed him if he needs feeding,i would do it after he has calmed. Then you try for the second nap the same way when you can see that LO is getting tired again.
Dont worry about the routine too much and dont worry ifhe doesnt nap at all the first day, it is normal.

Good luck, you have done well so far

I forgot to mention that during the naps my wife would only step in when LO goes into a berserk state where he would fight me and reach his little hands over to the side like he wants to go somewhere else. But when I put him back into his crib (as I read not to fight crying babies) he would continue to cry if not louder, and if I put him on the floor he stops crying and starts playing and gets OT. Anything I do at that point just makes him more mad and only my wife can calm him down.

Could this be separation anxiety?

[Florena49]

It could well be that, but in all honesty there is a lot of screaming usually hard screaming, would your wife consider carrying on with soothing LO rather than feeding him?
Every time you feed him to calm him sort of reinforces that if he cries lobg and hard he will be fed to sleep.

[anna*]

Separation anxiety doesn't kick in after half an hour, it would happen every time your wife left the room.