Help with 7 month EASY?

[k_castle]

(Post edited since original!)

I'd appreciate some help with our EASY! Comments/questions below the schedule.

(Sometimes WU 5-5:30)
E 6:30 BF
A
E 8:00 solids (1-2 Tablespoons mixed rice cereal/fruit)
A
S 9:00
E 10:30-11
A
E 1:30 BF
A (not really A time here... just enough to start nap routine and separate BF from going to sleep)
S 2:00
E 3:30
A
E 4:30 solids (1-2 Tbsp cereal/veggie)
A
E 6:00 Final BF
S 6:30-7

NW/F 10:30 pm
NW/F 2:30 am

My son is almost 7 months. We are near/at the end of the 3-2 nap transition. We've been struggling with EWU and I'd also like to drop one of the NFs, but I don't know how to make sure he's getting that food elsewhere. We've also had several nights of quite a few more NWs and seems to need to nurse to get back to sleep even though he falls asleep without it for naps and BT. He seems OT but even with a solid nap schedule and when I feel we've gotten back on track he will sleep poorly one night and restart the OT. EBT results in EWU.

Any ideas? TIA!

[Buttonbobs]

Hi there honey, I've split off your topic onto your own thread as this often helps to get more advice and more people responding than posting on an existing thread.

I can't post now but will be back later to take another look.

[k_castle]

Oh, OK! I was mainly sharing my EASY with the OP who was looking for examples of other people's, but I'd love some feedback on mine, too!

[k_castle]

Bump... Anyone have any feedback?

[Buttonbobs]

Hi there, you've noticed that you're getting more WUs at the moment. I would suggest hat he probably is quite OT. Given that you've just dropped a nap it seems like your day is quite long. Can you get that first A time shorter at all or would that leave you with a shorter nap?

Perhaps he likes a long first A and shorter A times through the day - could you try an earlier BT and see if that helps.

Can you clarify how many bfs you are doing?

Thanks

[k_castle]

LO does seem OT, I agree -- but if I don't stretch these WTs we sometimes can't even make it to a 5:30 BT (since he's been having EWUs every day!) He loses it at night and is better earlier in the day which is why first WT is longer. I should clarify, though, that when he has an EWU I don't wait until 9 to put him down. I'm trying to follow a roughly 2.5 hr first WT, then 3-3.5 2nd, 3-3.5 3rd.

The last two nights I've experimented with an EBT but he's still taking a LONG time to fall asleep at night.

I am BFing at WU, after 1 nap, 30 min before 2nd nap, after 2nd nap, and at BT, plus usually 2 NFs. So that's a total of 5+2.

Thank you for taking the time to look at this for me! I really appreciate it.

Here are actual sleep logs from a few recent days. Unless otherwise noted NWs are about 30 minute feeds.

Awake 6:45 AM
Nap 1 9:05-10:30 AM
Nap 2 1:30-3:30 PM
Asleep 6:25 PM
NW 10:30 PM
NW 2:45 AM
NW 5:45-6:20 AM *Treated this as a NW (no feed) to try to squash EWU problem, but realize now I should have just fed and gotten him up.

[WTs: 2.3/3/2.9; Total WT 9:50; 11 hrs night sleep; 14:25 total sleep/24 hours]

Awake 7:00 AM
Nap 1 9:25-11:25 AM
Nap 2 2:18-3:20 PM
Asleep 6:30 PM
Crying 8:55-9:05 PM
NW 9:35-10:05 PM
NW 1:23 AM

[WTs: 2.4/2.9/3.2; Total WT 8:47; 9:39 hrs night sleep; 12:41 total sleep/24 hours]

Awake 5:30 AM
Nap 1 8:00-9:38 AM
Nap 2 12:50-2:17 PM
Asleep 5:50 PM
NW 10:30 PM
NW 2:45 AM
(WU 5:40 AM)

[WTs: 2.5/3.2/3.55 (*would have been shorter but took forever to fall asleep); Total WT 9:25; 10:50 hrs night sleep; 13:55 total sleep/24 hours]

[Buttonbobs]

LO does seem OT, I agree -- but if I don't stretch these WTs we sometimes can't even make it to a 5:30 BT

Sometimes less sleep can lead to less sleep and the opposite is true. You might find that if you manage an earlier BT one day he might tack on and do a long night and get you back on track. It sounds like your current plan is leading to earlier and earlier starts so probably you do need to try something different.

He loses it at night and is better earlier in the day which is why first WT is longer. I should clarify, though, that when he has an EWU I don't wait until 9 to put him down. I'm trying to follow a roughly 2.5 hr first WT, then 3-3.5 2nd, 3-3.5 3rd.

I'm a bit confused, you've said the first A time is the longest but it does seem to be shorter than the other two A times in the day. EWs can be caused by the first A time being too short. Could you try making the first A time longer and shortening the third A time?

NW 5:45-6:20 AM *Treated this as a NW (no feed) to try to squash EWU problem, but realize now I should have just fed and gotten him up.

What lead you to conclude that your decision to help him back to sleep was a bad idea?

NW 5:45-6:20 AM *Treated this as a NW (no feed) to try to squash EWU problem, but realize now I should have just fed and gotten him up. [WTs: 2.3/3/2.9; Total WT 9:50; 11 hrs night sleep; 14:25 total sleep/24 hours]Awake 7:00 AMNap 1 9:25-11:25 AMNap 2 2:18-3:20 PMAsleep 6:30 PMCrying 8:55-9:05 PMNW 9:35-10:05 PMNW 1:23 AM

The rest of the day seems to have gone quite well after the additional 40 mins sleep until 7am I assumed he had. I think that the problem you had that night was more likely due to the A time following the one hour nap and before BT being too long. If you get a shorter nap you do need to shorten the A time following it so I would probably have tried for BT at 6ish at the latest, perhaps earlier if you were getting tired signs then.

Awake 5:30 AMNap 1 8:00-9:38 AMNap 2 12:50-2:17 PMAsleep 5:50 PMNW 10:30 PMNW 2:45 AM(WU 5:40 AM)[WTs: 2.5/3.2/3.55 (*would have been shorter but took forever to fall asleep); Total WT 9:25; 10:50 hrs night sleep; 13:55 total sleep/24 hours]

That slightly later BT possible led to the EW at 5.30 again and then I think as you had a good second nap (longer than 1.5 hours) BT was potentially a little too early and it took ages to settle.

My suggestion would be to shift that first A time longer by 15 minutes and hold it for three days, then move it later again for another few days. The holding is to let your LO adjust to it. You're not necessarily aiming to get a longer A time, but trying to persuade him to sleep in a little longer in the morning, he's unlikely to do this until the nap regularly moves a little later. After a good nap (1.5 hours or longer) you can put down for the second nap after 3 hours A time and then if you get a second good nap go for another 3 hours ish before BT.

We can review as you go if you post your EASY here and then look at tweaking it if need be.

What do you think?

[k_castle]

Thank you so, so much for this thoughtful response.

I like the idea of moving the 1st WT by 15 minutes and seeing if it helps the EWU. And the 3-hour-WT-if-good-nap rule will be very helpful, too. He has been taking great naps (1.25-2 hours each) on a 2-nap schedule. He's still in the swing, but that's an issue for another day... 

As for the decision to help him back to sleep, I guess I don't like that he cried for 45 minutes in order to sleep for another 40. But maybe that's just par for the course and he will start to string them together better. You're right that the rest of the day was good after that.

I will post another EASY in a couple of days. I appreciate you!

[Buttonbobs]

Good luck sweetie

You may well find a move to a cot for nap times is easier once his EASY is settled. It might so be easier for him to sleep well in the day once in a cot, let me know if you want help with transitioning him.

Hugs for the crying - it's so hard when they do that and then only sleep a little while. I do think it was worthwhile though as he was learning about it not always being WU time when he wakes immediately.

[k_castle]

Hi Button! I'm back.

We've made LOADS of progress, but I'd still love some help with a few tweaks if you're able!

In addition to moving out the first WT (which helped a ton), we worked on dropping the first night feed to get more consolidated sleep, AND moved naps to the crib. His second nap ever in the crib was 1.5 hours -- he adjusted quickly! It just seemed like it all needed to change for anything to come together.

So here we are, he is putting himself to sleep quite well for most naps/nights, but the time it takes is fairly inconsistent and I'm getting very inconsistent nap lengths. I'm not sure if that's because of his schedule or not, but the shorter naps are making getting to a decent bedtime kind of difficult, which is then creating earlier WUs than is ideal...

Here is our EASY from the last 3 days:

WU: 6 a.m.
E 6:30 (*I saw somewhere for an earlier than desired WU to feed a little later so you're not reinforcing the EWU)
A
S - Nap 1 9:10-9:40 (30m)
E 10:00
A
S - Nap 2 12:20-2:00 (1h40m)
E 2:05
A
S 6:00 p.m.-5:00 a.m.
E 5:00 a.m.
S 5:40-6:40 a.m.

TWT 9.8 hours

WU 6:40 a.m.
E 7:00
A
S - Nap 1 9:30-11:10 (1h40m)
E 11:15
A
S - Nap 2 2:15-2:55 p.m. (40m)
E 3 p.m.
A
S 6:30 p.m.-2:00 a.m.
E 2:15 a.m.
S 2:30-6:00 a.m.

TWT 9.5 hours

WU 6:00 a.m.
E 6:30 a.m.
A
S - Nap 1 8:55-10:05 a.m. (1h10m)
E 10:15 a.m.
A
S - Nap 2 1:05-1:45 p.m. (40m)

That brings us to now! As you can see sometimes he'll do a longer nap of 1:30-40, but I never know if it'll be morning or afternoon, and today it was neither. I think the closer to 2 hours in naps instead of 3 has actually been good for night sleep, but he always wakes up crying and won't go back to sleep, so I'm worried about that.

I've been keeping WTs as close to 3/3/3.5 as possible. He does seem to need that extra half hour (9.5 vs 9) to sleep well overnight. He also sometimes will fall asleep very quickly, and other times it takes forever. The night he ended up sleeping 6 p.m.-5 a.m. he took an hour to fall asleep and there was lots of crying. I realize now I should have put him to bed at 5:30 instead of 5.

I know this doesn't look horrendous compared to what it was, and I'm thrilled about that!!! Just would love less crying. Do you think that and nap lengths will sort themselves out? Any tips there? Ideally I'd like him to wake up between 6:30-45 and go to bed between 6:30-7 pm.

Oh -- I didn't note this in the EASY, but we've been doing whatever solids he will eat after breakfast and between the last 2 BFs.

[Buttonbobs]

Hey, well done you, you've made brilliant progress so far!

Looking at the easy you have posted above I would say on that first day the first A time was too long from a 6am WU. You ended up with an OT first nap of 30 mins. This did get you a good second nap.

On the second and third days the first A was more like 3 hours and this have you a good first nap. The following A time was also about three hours but this led to an UT 40 min nap. Perhaps you should go for a first A time of 3 hours and then if you get a long nap try 3 hours 15 mins for the second A time. Hold that for three days and if you get a shorter nap (40 mins) after that time then try a bit longer A again. I hope that makes sense.

This should help to get two long naps and make a "normal" BT easier to achieve.