Help needed with twins - things getting worse pg 22

[4isstillnighttime]

Laura that looks awful!! No helpful suggestions as we are up at 5 too....but am thinking of you!

I swear this has put me off having any more kids. When do they start sleeping? 2? 5? Or not til they leave home?

[babybarr]

They're not hungry. They normally feed between 2 and 4 but still are up so I feel I can't feed them at 5 as well yk? W2s happened by accident the other day but maybe I should try that. We're giving some formula after tea now to fill them up before bed.

Beth they're not tiny by any means! How much formula should they get during the day do u think? They have 3 7.5oz btls and pretty much take it all then as much as they'll take at bt but lately that hasn't been a massive amount prob about 5oz then prob another 3oz in food.

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

E is 18 lbs or so and takes 28 oz in the day usually plus 4-6 at night, plus a bf or two but those are pretty small snack feeds. Oh and I cant tell you how many times I forgot and ate things I shouldn't have when E was ebf...DH would be all "why are you having that?" right after I had already scarfed it down  .

If the waking is pretty habitual W2S is probably a good bet to try. Fx that it works!

[Uglybethy]

You're right if they are having a feed between 2 and 4 am than they are not hungry. I've read so many sleep books now I can't remember where I read the number of ounces of formula you need them to take during the day to give you the best chance of them sleeping through the night. From memory it was 32 ounces but I know my girls never ever took that much. I remember aiming for 28 ounces when we were trying to get them to sleep through and they are 50th centile babies for both weight and length. And that seemed to be enough for them. You can't count the ounces from food either as it's generally not caloric enough.

It feels very difficult for me to hold everything that you're trying to tweak for them in my mind all at once... The night wakings, the naps, the night feedings the early mornings. So goodness knows how it feels for you. It's a bit like that game where the rats pop up randomly and just when you think you've bopped them all down another one pops back up. So utterly exhausting for you I'm sure.

And I'm literally wracking my brain to see if there is one way to tackle all of these issues at once and the only thing I can come up with (which is how it felt for me too) is that you just need to keep bopping those rats right on the head every time one of them pops up and eventually they are all going to stay down for a night and a day, and then two nights and two days and then three and so on. I can honestly say that it does get more manageable and eventually the rats hold off long enough for you to at least recharge your batteries before they start popping back up again.

Sorry for the rat game metaphor but it's the only way I can seem to capture the twin (and singletons too I expect) experience.

Hang in there and let's keep working on bopping those rats right on the head!

Xxx

[babybarr]

Well I can increase their btls to 8oz. I'm fairly sure they'd drink that in the day. The milk I use in food is their milk made up so surely it'd be the same???

I know what u mean about bopping rats. I always think that when it's one up one down rinse repeat.

[Uglybethy]

Ooh yes I expect you can count that if you make it up with the formula

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

If they will take 8 oz I would up it...do they drain their bottles currently? The rule of thumb is to always make a bit more than they are likely to take so you can judge if they are full vs just done the bottle. Formula in food for sure counts!

Ugh it is bad enough with a singelton and keeping ahead, lots of hugs Laura!

[babybarr]

This just gets worse! Honestly I'm really struggling now.

So h slept till 4.10am and I do suspect he was disturbed by j as he didn't take all his btl but took a while to go back off. J woke at 1am and I managed to settle him for him to keep coughing himself awake for the next hr. He then fed at 4.10 but barely went back to sleep and then both up at 5.30 so we've pretty much been up since 4am. J was violently sick at 5.30am. I'm going to put j in the travel cot in our room tonight which may be a complete disaster. Sara you asked about self settling. They can but they're noisy and disturb or distract each other in the process. It takes them a lot longer to settle if the other one is awake so there's certainly some ap going on but not a massive amount. There's also rushing in quite quickly esp with j as he wakes h. I'm exhausted.

Naps aren't too bad. The first nap generally isn't so bad. Often we're out in the afternoon so 2nd nap hit and miss. J only slept 10mins yesterday afternoon. Maybe this is part of the problem but am I supposed to be homebound while on 2 naps?

[Uglybethy]

Ugh poor you.
Don't do anything drastic like separating them, especially if you want them to be together eventually. Do you have white noise in the room? THis is great as it muffles the sounds of the other twin rather well.
Re staying at home while you are working on the routine.... That's a great idea and one that I did and would recomend .. Just for a week or so so that you can be really consistent with what is expected from the boys. You can still go out it just has to be really really speedy and I'd say get back at least 40 mins before nap is due to avoid any UT falling asleep in cars or strollers which always result in unsuccessful transfers to cribs IMO.
How did it go with the increased formula during the day?
Keep us posted
Always thinking about how you're getting on
X

[anna*]

You know Laura I've been thinking and tbh with your health issues I would make YOUR sleep a priority. So I would be actively getting them off night feeds. Settle without feeding, PUPD or shush pat - when you know their tummies are OK. Once they're going through then even if they do wake up at 5am at least you have had a night's sleep. I know on BW we say it's normal for them to still need a feed at this age and they will drop it eventually but in this case I think your need for sleep trumps their need for a bottle, and plenty of mums do do this with babies 7 months and younger.

[*Ali*]

I would definitely up their ounces in the day if they will take it. That is probably the best way to start moving calories from the night to the day. And what about watering down the bottles at night to get rid of them? There is info on that method here How we stopped the night feeds with a 9 month old

I hope the vomiting was a one off and j isn't getting sick. Probably better to wait on weaning NFS until he is better if he is ill. Vicks vapour rub on the feet under socks is good for coughs apparently.

I was also going to suggest white noise to help drown out the sound of each other.

Hugs.

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

I have been watering down E's bottle - so far so good. Have you had success with offering formula after supper and at bedtime? We did that last night due to needing to go out and she took an extra 4 oz.

[babybarr]

Beth I was just going to separate them for a few nights to see how Harry slept do you think that'd be ok? We have quite loud white noise already.

Anna I know you're right. I've been doing small milk feed after tea but cos of the milk thing I don't know yet if it's helping. I'm def going to try the watering down. Does it really work?

[*Ali*]

I've never tried it but in the link I posted it seemed to have worked for a few people.

[Uglybethy]

You've got to try what feels right for you at the moment and something inside you is telling you to try it so you should. It's totally ok to try things out and either go with them if they work or change them back again if they don't. I always tell myself that it's good to role model making mistakes and rethinking things through as they will need to do that throughout their lives

But I think the real issue regarding the night wakings is about getting rid of the night feeds, as others have suggested, by increasing their formula intake during the day. I think that separating them is unlikely to miraculously cure the night wakings iykwim. But it might I guess..

I've got experience with weaning off a dream feed by watering it down and it worked a treat for us!

Good luck with your plan for the next few nights.