10mos - ew causing short morning A and nap

[Bababoo]

My DD is nearly 9 mo so not as old as your LO, but she can do 3.5-3.75hrs before the first nap. As soon as I started extending that from 2.5-3hrs like we were before, the EW stopped. (Think the clock change here in the UK helped, but she was doing much better before that). We went from 5.30am wu to 6 and now 6.30.

Hi...quick question...my DD is just 10 months and an EW (5 to 6am) but the earlier she wakes the shorter she can stay awake for that first spell so I usually give her a bottle when she gets up and usually after 1 1/2 hour (2 max) she needs a nap (def sleep cues)..but usually only sleeps 30 mins then so when we get up at 8ish again I tend to think of that as the start of the day and have breakfast etc then....
When your baba was getting up at 5.30 how long did you keep her up...I can't see mine going 3 hours when she wakes up at that time (she would do 3 hours A no problem the rest of the day) but really eager to try anything that ends getting up while it's still dark outside!!
Thanks...

[Kellyjs]

Hi Bababoo,

I was a bit naughty really.... I stretched it so far we got into a OT/UT loop which messed everything up for about a week. Impatience on my part to stop the EW!

Now DD is on 4hrs 15mins for the first A! And I wake her up at 6.30am to fit everything into the day and to preserve BT.

What time do you want your LO to start her day? At 10 months she should be going longer than 1.5hrs for the first A. I have a feeling that first nap is an extension of her night sleep, but I'm nowhere near an expert. If she's waking up hungry, do you think you could fed her then put her back down? Of course, you know your bubba better than I but If I was to do it again, I think I'd treat anything before 6am as a NW and first try to ssh/pat, then feed, try for an extra sleep to wu at usual time (especially if you want yours to wake up at 8am!)

I'm always really strict about night sleep and always have been.. 11.5hrs minimum.. 13hrs if she's missed a nap.

Might be an idea to post your EASY so a BW expert could have a look at it?

Hope that helps... I do think the 1.5hrs before first nap is reinforcing the EW though, sorry!

Xx

[Bababoo]

Thanks for the reply Kellyjs...I do think the first nap is part of her nights sleep..she is in bed asleep 7-7.30pm (depending on how quickly she settles) so a 5 or 5.30am wake-up isn't enough sleep..hence the very short A time to that first nap.

She does have a great appetite, always has, but I don't think it's hunger waking her early...she's pretty forthcoming about letting me know when she's hungry, she doesn't wake crying and is only cranky when it's very early, which is due to a short sleep.

Today she woke at 6am...she started stirring around 5.30 and by 6 was awake, full of chatter. The shh/pat doesn't work at that time  - enough mornings in her room at 5am have told me that!

I'd like her to get to 6am at the earliest every morning, esp as she doesn't take long naps during the day so I'm concerned that her sleep over 24 hours isn't enough. Plus, on a selfish level, to be up and functioning at 5am I have to go to bed very early and have no life 

Maybe what I should try to do is keep her up a few mornings for 3 hours for that first bit and see what happens....do you know why the short A time to the first nap reinforces an early wake time..just curious?

Thanks!

[Kellyjs]

I know exactly what you mean about the no life with stupid o'clock awake times! Some nights I've wanted to go to bed at 7 at the same time as DD! I HATE 5am and she'd struggle to go back to sleep at that time too, no matter how much I ssh/pat etc. just made her and I miserable.

Might be worth an EBT for a while to try and get more sleep out of her then more Y time too? Some nights I've had DD in bed for 5.40pm... It was lovely cooking dinner without her swinging on my trouser leg!

I know about the first A and EW because of the thousands of posts I've read on here at 5am when DD was  awake and I was desperate for answers. I also posted myself on the naps, night wakings and easy board to finally work the little munchkin out.

Also, since extending her awake time in the morning from 2hrs to now 4hrs + I no longer get the EW. Now she stirs at 5 and goes straight back to sleep because she knows she won't be going back to bed anytime soon I presume! I've had soooo much help about DD's routine and it turned out she was completely different to what I thought.. It took the experts on here and a fresh set of eyes on my routine to figure it all out. She has always been a awful 45-minute napper so I have to reinforce the first A to ensure she has a good first nap or else everything goes out the window!

One thing I did do which may or may not help, is to keep the 12hr days, 12 hr nights. I think this is something that's overlooked when we're concentrating on each A and forget about the day as a whole. So if she did wake up at 5.30am and refused to go back to sleep, I would make sure she was in bed by 6pm at the very latest. At least then when I did get an EW, it knew I could stretch the first A more as she's had a good nights sleep iykwim?

But as your LO woke up at 6pm and was in bed for 7pm that's not bad at all really! If DD had 11hrs, yes I would try and stretch it, but a little at a time. It's so easy for them to get OT for that first A.

For my DD EBT sorted out the OT when I messed it up and stretched her too much too soon, then we could start from scratch. Then I moved everything including mealtimes forward 15mins every few days or so like we do with daylight savings. It meant she had a BT of 6 for a couple of weeks, but then it gradually got later to a more respectable time. Actually I do miss that hour before DH got home, DD was in bed and I had Y time then, but we can't have it all eh?!

Good luck with it, as I said, it might be worth popping over to the easy board to get someone to cast their eye over your routine if you're concerned about her sleep. It helped me tremendously!

Xx

[Bababoo]

Thanks so much for taking the time to reply...this has been ongoing since early Jan...I think I've been too tired and depressed by the early starts to think that anything could change - I decided at some point that this is just the way she is... but reading about people in the same situation who did manage to change it has convinced me that it would be better for both of us if I could get it sorted..when she's had a good nights sleep she is the greatest fun...so happy and playful...and after a short night she is so cranky and clingy, right when obviously I'm at my most tired aswell.

I find it hard to get he to bed any earlier - by the time she's had her dinner, and a little break and then her bottle it always seems to be around the 7 mark that I get her down - and she's just started insisting on feeding herself so meals are taking AGES!! I shouldn't complain as she is really interested in food and will eat pretty much anything I make  - there's bound to be someone on another thread here desperate to get their baba to eat and feed themselves!

I'm working tomorrow so I'll leave things as they are...I think then on Sunday I'll start extending that first A time out and see what happens. 

Thanks again for taking the time to help!

[Kellyjs]

Anytime!

It was suggested to me to move tea to around 4pm which I've done... Around 4.30pm after her nap for us now. I've got the same problem as you there too... It takes forever! At least it's done around 5.15pm leaving enough time for her to have a little bit if a play before bath and bed.

Good luck with extending the first A, I'm sure she'll (and you!) cope just fine. It's so tempting to put them to bed when they get cranky... I've got it here at the moment now and there's still another hour to go before nap time! It passes after 10 mins or so here.

Xx

[Bababoo]

Yea, I think if I get the early starts sorted alot of other things will fall into place - her two proper naps will be earlier so I could do dinner earlier and have a bit more wind-down time before bed.

I agree about the temptation to put her down in the morning when she starts to get cranky...the problem aswell is that I'm so tired (5.40am start today) that I'm also eager to have the chance to lie down for another 1/2 hour...so we'll both have to fight through it!

Short term pain and all that!!

x

[Bababoo]

Back looking for some more advice - I increased DD's first A time to 4 hours and within a few days she was making it to a 6am WU rather than 5am...this helped her AM nap aswell as it's now an 1hr to 1 1/2..PM nap 30-45 mins.

Then suddenly last week the 5am starts returned - meaning that she is only getting 10 hrs at night and 2 hours during the day.

She has teeth on the way but I'm convinced it's not the teeth waking her...she's not upset, just very awake...and sitting up in the cot ready for action! As the EW was ongoing for months, before the new teeth started to appear, it's a habit thing...I think anyway!

Today for instance..
5.15 awake..put her lying down again in the hope she might settle, which she does occasionally and will fall back asleep independently....not today! Left her for @ 20 mins but she was in full chat mode and sitting up again so...
6am 7oz bottle
Playtime
8am breakfast
9.30 bed

10.45 awake
11.15 4oz bottle
Playtime
1.30 lunch (started, self-feeding so took 45 mins to finish it!)
2.45 bed

Will probably sleep till 3.30ish
Dinner @ 5
Bottle @6 (7oz)
Bed (asleep by 7.30)

Some days she's asleep by 7 - the last A time is sometimes only 3 hours....

I can't seem to get her to bed any earlier and fit all the meals and bottles in...

She is good for sleeping through the night and settling herself if she wakes..can usually find the paci herself - every few weeks will have an inexplicable wake-up and requires shh/pat to get back to sleep but they are rare enough.

I have no idea why the 5am start is back...was totally thrown the first morning it reappeared ..6am is still very early but does suit us both better, and I was hoping that 6 might slowly lead to 7!

Any advice very gratefully received!


 

[Bababoo]

Just realised that this should be in general sleep issues as the increased A times have sorted the naps (for the moment) so this is really just about the EW - don't know how to move the topic though - apologies!