Got rid of props but now struggle to get him back to sleep

[KookyK]

So we used pu/pd to wean the dummy which worked altho pu/pd now seems to wind DS up more than help so I only use as a last resort now.

He wakes a lot less than before (previously every 1-2 hours, 3 at best) now wakes 2-3 times per night.

The trouble is I can't find a way to get him back to sleep at night now I've got rid of our props (dummy, v loud white noise where he woke up if it was turned off etc). If I put a hand on him tummy he grabs at it and it becomes a game. He never liked to be patted (only liked the shh part). He has a 'sleep sheep' plays quiet white noise but it doesn't really send him off. He is soothed a bit if I hum a song but doesn't easily sleep from it.

At present he's having 2 night feeds, occasionally 3, as that gets him to sleep. But that's obv a habit/prop too!  Help!

Altho his nights are better naps are still not great. Partly a problem with school run getting in the way. I don't mind the early start too much.  Days are either

A 5-5.30
S three to 3.25 hours later. For 45 mins.
A 9.30ish
S three hours later 45 mins c12.30-1.15
S 2.5-3 hrs later 45 mins c4-4.30
Bed 6.30-7

Or sometimes he will do one long and one short nap it varies which order. Awake times similar.

If he goes to bed before 6.30 we start the day too early pre 5.

[Layla]

How old is he?

[KookyK]

8 months the other day.

[Layla]

I wonder if maybe he needs a routine tweak?! I know you mentioned you have school run to work around but could you hold off on putting him down in the morning until you're back from school run.. maybe distract him with toys or a snack in the car and then offer afternoon nap around 3.5hrs later so that there wont be a need for the evening catnap? That may help him sleep better at night? I think its still ok to feed him at night up to 2 times... could you maybe try slowly weaning him if everything else hypes him up rather than soothing him... so you could start with offering just one breast per night feed and then work on reducing how long he is eating for? Or would your DH be willing to try and settle him as I know in our case, it used to take more time for me to resettle dd3 than when I'd send dh in as she knew I had the goods

[KookyK]

Yes I think you're right.

This morning he had a long A time u planned as he choked on one of DDs stickers and was sick. And 1 he 20 later he's stil asleep compared to his usual short nap.

So I'm thinking something like this on school days if I can poss shift morning to 6
A 6
S 9.30 ill be home just! Hopefully til 11
S on school run in car 2.30-3.15 (he usually wakes as soon as we get in at 3.15)
Bed 6.30-6.45

But how to get morning to be 6? If he falls asleep before 9.15 it'll be jn the car and he will wake when we get in at 9.15.

Alternative
A 5
S 8.30-9.15 in car
S 12.45-2.15 or 2.30 (leave for school at 2.40 latest)

[KookyK]

That last one means ebt needed I shd add.

[KookyK]

We did a version of long nap then short nap yday with an (accidental) much longer A time than usual (he got uo at 4.30 but had a sick incident requiring a clean up at nap time, not ill choked on DDs sticker). He managed a long nap which is v v rare. Bed at 6.30. Had a great night. His A time was around 4 hrs! Seemed a teeny bit too much as he was v sleepy by nap time but I think 3 hr 45 might work.

Last night (after a brief wake at 8.30pm soothed by me singing for a few mins) he has a feed at 10.30 and 4.10 and slept til 5.45!!! That's his latest wake up in awhile!

[Layla]

Wow, sounds promising! I agree that 4 hrs is probably a bit too much. I think he should be ok on one long and one shorter nap with 6.30pm bedtime and at 8 months we were doing 45mins-1hr morning nap and a longer afternoon nap about 3hrs later with bedtime around 3-3.5hrs later. So, I think if you can manage to keep him awake until 9.30am in the morning and do the routine you posted, hopefully his day will shift later too and without that 3rd nap, which can interfere with night sleep, he should hopefully sleep better at night!