2yo just doesn't seem to want to eat

[delancepants]

Hi, DS2 is just 2yo.  Since he was 1 he's been a really fussy eater and it seems like his appetite is really small.  He is not skinny, he looks a very healthy weight, but he's not very tall, so he's the average height and weight of about 18mo.  This in itself doesn't worry me, as his father is from an area of India where everyone is very small.  Neither am I worried about what to feed him, at this stage I've figured out a basic range of foods that fulfill most of his dietary requirements.  The problem is just getting him to eat at all!! 

He seems to have a general pattern of not wanting to eat during the day, he'd rather eat at night.  My theory is that during the day, he'll have a small snack that takes the edge off the hunger enough that he doesn't notice the hunger so much and then he just wants to carry on playing or getting involved with whatever is happening.  But then at night time when he's in a dark quiet boring bedroom, he feels the hunger more and demands to be fed.

Last year we spent months trying to wean him off breastfeeding at night, it went on for such a long time, and every illness/bout of teething he'd stop eating during the day and cry so much from hunger at night that we'd slip back to night feeding again.  After a long time I was just left with the morning feed around 5am, which I then switched to pediasure on the doctor's advice (I tried formula but DS would not take it).  I thought this would help wean him completely from night feeds but no.  He kept waking early around 5am and the only way to get him to go back to sleep was to feed him the pediasure.  I tried an extended period without the morning feed following advice from BWers on the forum, but he never extended his sleep so I went back to the 5am feed and he started sleeping longer in the mornings again, so I surmised that he was, in fact, hungry.  After that I decided I had to try and feed him up more before bedtime, so after months of trying all kinds of tactics at the dinner table to trick him into eating, I gave up and started putting him in front of the tv for an hour before bed and it worked quite nicely.  He ate well in front of the tv and went to bed full and stopped waking in the night around 12/1am as had been his habit for some time.  The 4/5am feed continued though, but I didn't care as he was sleeping so much better and sleeping through to 6 or some days 7. 

Now we seem to have a problem again though, he seems to be bored of the movie that he used to eat in front of and now he refuses much of the food I offer, especially the more calorific stuff.  So now he's back to struggling to get to sleep, waking in the night around 12/1 am and waking early in the morning and this time not even getting back to sleep after his 5am feed.  The problem has been compounded by my DH who is currently starting a new business and is so exhausted in the night that he's not aware of what time it is and he's been giving the 5am feed in the middle of the night.  DS is now using the pediasure as a part time prop and demanding it most of the time he wakes.  I have moved back into the bedroom so now I can monitor more closely what's going on, and we've been witholding the pediasure until 4/5am again, and even though he doesn't complain much at 12, 1 or 2am when he wakes, he's lying awake for an hour or so, trying his best but unable to go back to sleep, which again, I'm putting down to hunger as he's not eating much during the day.  He's now in an OT situation though, with short naps which appear to be due to OT. 

I just don't know what to do now that the tv trick has stopped working.  Has anyone got any idea as to how on earth I'm supposed to feed this child during the day?  He seems to have very little interest at all and after a few bites either clamps his mouth shut or spits the food out.  I have wondered whether the pediasure may be contributing too many calories and that he has no appetite as a result but I've tried watering down the pediasure slightly but he doesn't seem to be any more hungry in the day, just more hungry at night.

Thanks, Lia

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

How much pediasure is he getting in a day? I would guess it probably is not helping him to be hungry during the day as if he has a full feed of it at 5 am he is probably not keen on breakfast and so on. Does he drink it in the day too?

Also there are molars that come at around age two, so besides the prop issue with feeding do you think that could be contributing. What exactly does he eat most days? My kids could get by on very little sometimes!

[delancepants]

He has pediasure twice a day, once at night and once in the morning, but I've managed to water it down so he's actually only having one serving a day.  Yes, I think you're right, it's not helping him to be hungry.  I've tried for the last about 5 days to cut it down and he has shown a little more enthusiasm in eating in the morning but it's still dodgy for the rest of the day.

He could be teething, but I can't be sure.  We've all had a couple of upset tummies lately and both his appetite and sleep have been disturbed as a result.  I can't see any signs of teeth coming through though and usually he would get cold like symptoms when teething, whihc he doesn't have at the moment. 

I'd say on average he's having per day:
one serving of pediasure
half a cup of fresh watermelon juice
a third of a cup of rice
half a teaspoon of cheese spread
quarter cup of bombay mix
quarter cup of lentils/chickpeas
one tablespoon of veggies
a tablespoon of cashew nuts or peanuts
4 squares of chocolate or about 5 crisps

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

Are you vegetarian?  Am guessing so...sorry have no experience there with a toddler but what jumps out to me is besides the pediasure (is dairy and option?) is the chocolate/chips/bombay mix make up a good portion of the days food. Personally I wouod want to attempt changing those to foods that are more nutrient dense and perhaps up the veg.

[*happy*]

Have you tried soups?or ice-pops?home-made versions
Have helped us here when DD1 has been fussy.i hide a
multitude in them!

[creations]

Personally I would cut out all the pediasure, chocolate, crisps and bombay mix (I'd prob cut out the nuts too for a while) and juice. These things have very little nutritional value, mostly high in salt or sugar or just fill the tummy leaving no room for real food in meals.  I also wouldn't worry about him getting fewer calories for a few days by cutting them out and would stick by it, offer proper meals and healthy snacks such as fruit, veg, toast, naan bread or chapati, tofu, eggs and cheese (if you eat these foods), meat and fish (if you eat these).  If he likes the spiced flavour of bombay mix you can spice his proper meals with similar seasoning but without the salt.  I would also put in a regular drink of milk up to a cup per day of full fat cows milk.

There is really no reason why a 2yo would need to eat at 5am unless he is currently going through an illness or recovery, it sounds habitual. I would give him a drink of water and tell him he will get breakfast at his usual getting up time. If you usually get up at 7am, he is not going to starve in 2hrs. He may be annoyed, very annoyed, and you can explain to him you understand he is upset and that you are concerned that he is not getting enough of the right foods to help his body grown and repair itself.  you may have a couple of days where no one sleeps between 5 and 7am but I imagine his fussing would stop after 2 to 3 days.
Then come 7am I would give him a proper meal, cereal, toast, egg omelet, french toast (eggy bread) something like that, plus a serving of fruit (not juice).
If he likes chickpeas and lentils then I'd even serve that, 2-3 times per day if necessary, they are healthy so long as you are not using a lot of salt in cooking.
I would also make sure you eat as a family.  If Daddy is out working then it is whoever who is home, you and DS, sit together no TV, chat, share food, make meal times special and pay him lots of attention but not too much attention to the food. if he eats nothing at all I would ask him to try one mouthful and tell him his body needs some food for energy so he can play well.
I would also keep snacks very small (a kid size handful of sultanas or a cracker) and at set times only (one mid morning and one mid afternoon) until 3 proper meals are being taken.

When mine ate almost no protein and his diet had become out of balance I switched breakfast to a protein meal (egg) instead of carbs (cereal) and he ate it the first day with no fuss whatsoever, and every day thereafter. I've since seen other parents offer particular foods for breakfast if that food type is out of balance in the diet and it has worked many times the LO begins to eat it.  Morning hunger can be a great motivator to eat healthy meals.

hope this helps some.

[weaver]

I do agree with PPs that things like choc, crisps, bombay mix etc could easily completely dropped from his diet and replaced with more nutritious things.  Given he's not keen on the act of eating, I would be trying to make sure that every bit of food he is offered counts in terms of nutrition and a healthy diet.  So, cubes of cheese or tofu are a good option, the choc could be replaced with dried fruits as they are high in iron, apple slices with nut butter are great, and so on. I'm happy to chat about that more if you like as I'm veggie and both my LOs are too.

As happy mentions 'hiding' healthy foods, I think Jessica Seinfeld has a good recipe book on how to include servings of veg in the most surprising places...this one: Haven't used it myself, but I hear good things about it.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Deceptively-Delicious-Simple-Secrets-Eating/dp/006176793X

As I have a nearly 2 yo in the house myself, I am wondering about the 'HOW' of his eating, rather than the "what" which is easily addressed.  You don't give much detail on that so apols if I'm off the mark with what follows.  Most 1-2 yos are not naturals for sitting still at a dinner table for 20 minutes and eating what we would regard as a 'proper' meal.  Nonetheless, it is vitally important that you create the opportunity for him to learn that this is what we do at mealtimes.  So much of children's learning at this age is done by followed modelled behaviour.  I really think you need to switch off the TV and sit down at the table for every meal and snacktime with him.  OK, so he sits for two minutes and then goes off for a walk.  But he will see that you are sitting at the table and learn (eventually!) that this is what we do when we are eating.  And it really doesn't matter if he gets up to sit on your knee and then eats.  Or, as my LO2 likes to, continues wombling about on the floor but helps herself from her plate placed at a convenient height for her.  The lesson is that we sit at the table and eat together, and eating is fun and not a chore. 

You mention above trying to trick him into eating.  At this age, he needs to be fully in control of what goes into his mouth, he uses his own cutlery, he picks it up with his fingers, whatever, but no one else should be trying to put food in his mouth.  Apart from anything, 2 yos are generally terrors about wanting to control things. As there are very few things they actually *can* control, food can quickly become a battle-ground, with unfortunate results. Give him control of what he eats, and see what happens.  Another way of making eating fun and giving him control is to involve him in preparation, and sometimes letting him pick what he wants. But use closed choices 'Would you like X or Y?', as open choices can be overwhelming as well as leading to him picking something you don't want him to have!

The most important thing I think here is for you to realise that you cannot MAKE him eat.  You can just offer opportunities, and if you make sure that everything you offer to him is 'good food', then you'll be happy enough that he is eating well, even if not much in terms of quantity. My own LO2 ate lots in one go but now, nearly age 2, looks like she eats half nothing, as she is so busy running about and doing things.  That's her developmental priority right now!  Her eating pattern has shifted so that most of what she eats is snack-sized, even at mealtimes.  I'm confident it will shift back again at the proper time but in the meantime I'm keeping on modelling that 'correct' behaviour.

No child will starve themselves, reassure yourself of that.  If he is hungry, he will eat.  But I wouldn't be offering chocolate if he hasn't eaten his banana, or toast, or whatever.  I would certainly not be feeding him at night, that will just reinforce for him the idea that he doesn't need to eat during the day.

Hope some of that helps, it's a bit of a tricky situation but you can fix it! 

[delancepants]

Well I'm actually wondering the last few days if he might be at the very beginning of the 1-0 transition, which would explain the night waking, but still I will try some of these ideas for encouraging him to eat during the day (and esp healthy foods), let's hope they work!

MasynSpencerElliotte...yes I am veggie and despite my best efforts to feed this child meat, he just won't try it.  He just spits it out.  As for the rest of the food, I know a fair bit about healthy eating and his current diet is obviously not the best, but it's the best I can manage at the moment.  He is extremely fussy and there is no way he'll eat something if he doesn't want it, he just spits it out.  (as opposed to DS1 who will say he doesn't want to eat something but then he'll go ahead and eat it anyway with a little persuasion!!)  I've tried cutting out snack foods but then he'll just happily go hungry and ends up sleeping very badly and demanding more pediasure at night.  I've also tried disguising healthy foods but he's too smart and most of the time still refuses.  The bombay mix is actually serving a valuable purpose in that it is a valuable source of iron, which he's just not getting when he refuses lentils/beans and all meat.  I think if we were living back in the uk then I'd be able to feed him a better diet because there's such a good range of foods there, but here in India there's very little except local produce and I think he gets bored with what's available.

*happy* - I make lentil soup often, but he has little interest.  Ice pops are a great idea, though, I used to do them for DS1, I'll give them a try, thanks for reminding me!

creations - as I mentioned already, i've tried cutting out the less healthy stuff and as I say he just sleeps really badly and then the whole family ends up in a state (esp atm when we're all sleeping together in the only ac room).  I already offer healthy meals, fruit and veg but he has limited interest.  I offer meat, eggs and cheese, once or twice a month he will eat eggs but only a few bites.  Meat and cheese he spits out.  He also refuses almost all other forms of dairy, including milk, which is why I haven't done the 'withdraw the unhealthy foods' experiment for more than a few days as I'm worried about his calcium intake falling too low without the pediasure (although I have done that experiment several times over the last year to see if he grows out of this fussy eating stage, to no avail, reducing the pediasure did not increase his interest in dairy of any form).  Yes he does like some spicy stuff, and I try to use this to my advantage by putting pickle etc on his veggies, and spice in some other foods, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.  The tofu here does not have calcium added, so it's of little nutritional value esp since the calorie and fat contents are on the low side.  (btw bread is not very healthy, it has little nutrition and anyway it can affect iron absorption, which is one of my major concerns seeing as he eats so few foods with high iron content, hence the bombay mix, I choose those made exclusively with chickpea flour for max iron content). 

Cutting out the morning pediasure is definitely on the agenda, but not for another couple of months.  As I've tried the experiment before and it didn't work (his sleep didn't extend, he just stayed awake from 5am and got OT and even after 5 weeks it still didn't work, but when we reintroduced the pediasure his sleep extended again) I'm not prepared to submit the whole family to deprived sleep, so it will have to wait until the weather cools down and I can take him into a separate room. 

I feed him as much in the way of beans as I can, but there's only so much he will eat.  We do stick to meal times, the bombay mix and nuts are usually part of a meal, beit lunch or his evening meal in front of the computer.  Feeding him the healthy stuff for breakfast is is GREAT idea, I wouldn't have thought of that, I guess we are used to a certain idea of 'breakfast' foods, but here in india they eat curry for breakfast, so why not DS too!!  That may also work really well once we cut the pediasure morning feed.

weaver - Thanks for the link, I'll check it out. 

As I've mentioned I'm reluctant to drop the bombay mix as it's actually contributing to his iron intake.  the crisps / chocolate are only given as a treat once he's eaten a healthy meal.  He's not keen on dried fruits, I offer them frequently, sometimes he'll have them, sometimes not.  sometimes he'll eat peanut butter, sometimes not.  there are no other nut butters available here. 

We do sit down for meals together, that's very important for me, and I have also stopped expecting him to sit in his own chair, my lap is fine if it helps him to eat.  I only use the TV in the evening (after our official dinner time where we sit at the table) and I also already use closed choices.  I have tried on numerous occasions to allow him to exclusively feed himself but it always ends up the same, he doesn't eat enough, sleeps badly then asks for milk in the night. 

I had a discussion with DH the other night to make it clear not to feed him in the night any more and we seem to have come through the worst of it for the moment.  I'm also wondering if thirst in the night time has also been contributing, it's very difficult for the kids to drink enough during the day atm, it's 40 degrees here, and difficult even for us as adults to keep up our water intake enough to keep us going overnight.  So we've been concentrating on offering lots of drinks during the day and evening, so things have improved somewhat.  I'm also hoping that altering his nap routine will help the sleep.  I will try out the suggestions given and in a couple of months cut that morning feed.  Fingers crossed!

[cath~]

Just a thought - I know I'm less hungry when it's hot.  Do you think that could be a contributing factor?  Any way to offer food when it's cooler (I guess like the breakfast time suggestion) or in a cooler spot?  Is it hot where you actually eat? Sorry, if that's a really obvious suggestion that you've already thought of!

[Buttonbobs]

Hi there, I have read through the posts above and it does seem like you know what your DS should be eating in order to maintain a healthy intake. I have a couple of thoughts following your recent post:

He also refuses almost all other forms of dairy, including milk, which is why I haven't done the 'withdraw the unhealthy foods' experiment for more than a few days as I'm worried about his calcium intake falling too low without the pediasure (although I have done that experiment several times over the last year to see if he grows out of this fussy eating stage, to no avail, reducing the pediasure did not increase his interest in dairy of any form

You have tried withholding unhealthy things from him and reducing the pediasure several times before. How many days at a time have you tried this?

I wonder whether he is like the child who screams and screams at night because he doesn't want to be in his cot and then after a couple of hours of trying to sleep train using BW methods, parents go back to the tried and tested sharing a bed, even though they know this is not what he needs in the long term. I say this because if there is a pattern of him knowing that you will go back to offering him what he wants to eat after a few days, he may just not have got to the point of being hungry enough to eat what you really want him to. The fact that you have done it before maybe means he will hold off for longer than a child who had never had this happen before. This makes sense when I say it to myself so I hope you know what I mean.

If you decide to do this again, you really need to go with it until he eats healthily again. You may decide that because of this, your worry that he'll become malnourished is too overwhelming to enable you to try this route. I'm not a medical practitioner, but my thoughts would be that any malnourishment from following this method would only be temporary, and worthwhile if it helps him to have a more balanced diet.

the crisps / chocolate are only given as a treat once he's eaten a healthy meal.

Is it possible that he holds out from eating properly in order to get the "treats" he wants to have. Personally I always offer a healthy dessert (fruit/yoghurt) to my DD after every meal, whether she has eaten well or not. Treats or "sometimes foods" are things that we choose to offer as an occasional additional food and not as a reward connected to normal everyday eating habits. This way, if DD refuses her main meal, but eats a banana for her pudding, I feel better that she has had something of nutritional worth and will help her last until the next meal.

I agree with Catherine, that eating more in cooler times of the day may help.

What about gradually removing the pediasure from his diet and offering more healthy foods for him to eat if he wants. I would also want to be removing the high salt snacks.

[weaver]

Pancakes are a great way of getting protein in - you can make them with chickpea flour or ground almonds and of course egg and a splash of milk.  If you want him eating chickpeas, why not just offer chickpeas? Or hummus?

And it's reasonably easy to make homemade nut butters.  Almond butter is particularly good but sunflower seed is excellent too.

[*jazzberry*]

Do you think the NWs could be due to thirst rather than hunger? Could you try replacing the pediasure with water at night? It would probably help his appetite during the day then too..

[delancepants]

Ha ha, thanks Cathn, not a silly question at all.  Right now it's just ridiculously hot everywhere and all day and night.  I could try feeding him in the ac bedroom, but tbh I don't think it would make a difference as he was fussy during winter, ok that's indian winter, but even when we were in Uk/ireland last year he was fussy. 

Good point Buttonbobs, previously I have tried between 5-7 days, but you're right, he could be holding out longer as he knows I'll give in sooner or later.  He's so small though, I'm just too scared to push it right now.  I think I would feel more comfortable about it if he was older/bigger.  I do already offer plenty of healthy foods all through the day (I mean my diet and DH's diets are very healthy, even DS1 has a pretty healthy diet, and we sit together at mealtimes so he's always getting offered the healthy stuff, plenty of fruit and veg) so maybe if I reduce the pediasure over a sustained period he might start taking up the offers more.  I guess once monsoon starts and it cools down I'll give it a go.

Thanks weaver, I already make chickpea flour pancakes (with egg and milk), sometimes he eats them sometimes not.  I do offer chickpeas but same story.  Unfortunately I don't have the right equipment to make nut butter and can't afford to buy it right now (actually I'm not sure if they have the right thing here).  I did bring my super duper blender from the uk but india killed it within 6 months.  I have a cheap indian thing now that won't do the job.

Thanks Jazzberry, yes I think thirst could have been part of it.  last night I really pushed him to drink lots before bedtime and he slept great, but it could have been due to being tired from little sleep the night before (crying for the pediasure for 1.5hours!).  But I do have the water ready for tonight just in case!

[TB9]

If it were me I would cut out the pediasure right away.  The nutritional information says it has 18g of sugar per serving, which is about 4.5 teaspoons of sugar    and the first two ingredients are water and sugar...so probably not a good idea for him to be having it on a regular basis.  The recommendation for preschoolers is 3tsp of sugar total through the whole day.  I wouldn't be surprised if he is waking at 5am to get his sugar fix, lol 

I also wanted to say that, from experience, if you cut the junk you LO will eat if they are hungry.  I found that when I was pregnant with dd2, dd1 was eating too much unhealthy stuff.  I ended up just not buying the unhealthy stuff, and dd1 got over it.  She eventually started gobbling up the good stuff, and stopped asking for the not so good stuff.  It can be done, and when you are ready I am sure the lovely ladies here will be happy to offer support, advice and alternatives (there must be an iron fortified alternative to bombay mix, no?)  I have some links i can post for you if you are ready to start changing it now.

I found that when dd1 got to be that age she was more likely to eat her food if she helped prepare it.  She was also more likely to try new things or things she would have refused before if she helped make them.  It is a trick I will be trying with dd2 as she is a big "meat and potatoes" kinda kid and generally spits out most fruit and veggies!

On a side note about bread, there are parts of whole grains that make up breads that can interfere with the absorption of nutrients.  But there are also preservatives and chemicals in processed foods that interfere with absorption of nutrients.  Me, personally, I would focus on offering a variety of grain/whole grain foods, including bread (a 2-3yo does need 3 serving of grains as part of a healthy balanced diet) and skip the overly processed food and snack mixes 

[delancepants]

That's interesting Tinkerbell99, how long did it take your LO to start eating healthy stuff?

As I mentioned I do water down the pediasure quite a lot so that the sugar doesn't have quite as much impact.  Of course I don't want him taking it in the long term it's just that all my efforts so far have failed, but maybe I haven't tried for long enough.  He's just so small that I've been scared to push him too hard.

I can't find any other viable alternatives in terms of iron or calcium either for that matter. 

I take your point about additives affecting absorption, but what I refer to as bombay mix is actually gathia and besan papdi, both of which are quite freshly made, they don't last long so I doubt there's any additives.  The bread issue is actually a moot point anyway as he has never eaten bread in any form, he flat refuses it every time.

[TB9]

Yes, I understand that it is being watered down, but if he gets an 8oz serving in a day between two servings he is still getting 1.5tsp more sugar in just those 2 servings of pediasure than he should be getting all day.  He may be snacking all daybecause he is basically getting water+sugar as his first meal in the am, yk?  I know I snack all day when I have started out the day with a sugary breakfast.

My apologies re the bombay mix!  When I looked up bombay mix it definitely was not what you are describing, lol.  It was packaged snack mix that seemed to be white rice flour based and looked like it didnt have a single good ingredient   What you are describing doesnt seem that bad, the recipes I found have chickpea flour as a base instead of rice flour, and bonus if it is fresh without preservatives

It took a little while for dd to start eating better...she was definitely getting too much sugar for breakfast and snack times, so it took her brain a little while to adjust to the idea of a less sugary breakfast and no goodies for snack time.  Kinda like her tastebuds needed time to adjust, if that makes sense?  I just got to the point where I realized foods that should have been special treats once a week (or even less frequently!) had become staples.

[delancepants]

Just out of interest, all you mums with kids who eat healthy diets - what do healthy foods do your LOs eat?

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

Tbh I cannot remember exactly the things they were eating at that age, but I just don't keep really unhealthy stuff in the house much so it is not an option. Currently they eat a bit of things from every food group - they have their favs and things they hate and I respect that so long as they actually taste something before dismissing it! The other night I made ham & split pea soup and although they gave it a weird look they tried it and loved it. DD2 is harder work to get to try new things, some stuff has taken months of offering/tasting before she finally ate it, but I always kept putting the stuff out and not offering alternatives (she is gluten free though so her meals are sometimes slightly different than ours!).

[TB9]

For an example, this is what we ate yesterday:
Breakfast: toast, scrambled eggs, banana (for dd2 and I); Rice Krispies cereal with milk, banana, scrambled egg (for dd1)
Snack: Fruit bar and applesauce
Lunch: Hummus with pitas and carrot sticks (dd2 just eats the hummus mostly, lol)
Snack: cheese and crackers
Dinner: Chicken chili, salt free corn chips, and avocado

DD1 used to eat eggo waffles for breakfast (basically premade toaster waffles) with syrup or jam.  I stopped buying them when I realized she was eating them too often and asking for them everyday.  Snacktime she used to eat soft banana bread tyoe cookiesm or other sweet food for both snacks.  I stopped buying the banana bread cookies, and let her have a sweeter snack in the am or pm, but not both.  I also used to buy a pudding cup for myself that was dairy free, and tasted like really sweet lemon merengue pie (I have a massive sweet tooth) but dh and dd1 discovered them and I had to stop buying them becauss she was asking for them  most nights after dinner.

I definitely notice dd1 snacking less during the day when she gets a good breakfast with protein in it.  DD2 needs to have a scrambled egg for breakfast, if it isnt on her tray she will eat nothing!  And since I have started making dd1 an egg in the am too I have noticed that she doesnt snack as much though the day.

I know most of your food choices will depend on what you have available in your area.  Everyone has those challenges, its just different challenges depending on where you live.  But for basic meal planning, I try to include 3 food groups in every meal, and 2 food groups in every snack.  It makes it much easier for me to pick things for the girls to eat through the day to do it that way.

I think if you start his day differently, you may notice that the rest of the day goes better eating wise.  And if not, well, at least you have gotten off to a decent start   You said that your dh is on the smaller side, and the morning wakes may be due to the 1-0 transition, so it is very possible that he doesnt need the pediasure at all.  I dont see the harm in reducing the amount he takes and eventually cut it out at that am wakeup and see if you can get him eating better at least in the morning, yk?  I totally understand the worry, but I think pediasure should be a short term thing, not a long term solution (regardless of how the company markets it!)

[creations]

These are the foods DS eats:
aubergine, courgette, asparagus, green beans, carrots, peas, sweetcorn (loose, corn on cob and baby corn), beetroot, turnip, celeriac, swede, parsnip, butternut squash, rocket, lettuce and salad leaves, onion, cucumber, tomato (plum, cherry, beef, canned, sun dried), sweet peppers (red, yellow, orange, not green), sweet potato, white potato, olives, mushrooms, leeks, long stemmed broccoli
chick peas (and hummus), borloti beans, pinto beans, flagilot beans, red kidney beans (and bean dips), lentils
eggs, turkey, chicken, lamb, pork, beef (we don't serve beef at home and rarely lamb or pork)
salmon (fresh home made into fish fingers in a crumb), rainbow trout (home made fish fingers), canned tuna, mackerel (fresh oven baked or fried, smoked, canned), herring, sprats, mussels, prawns, smoked salmon pate (home made), chicken liver pate, deli pate
cream cheese, garlic roule, cheddar, brie, Gorgonzola, st agure, Parmesan, mozzarella, natural unsweetened yoghurt, cream, cows milk
pasta variety of shapes, noodles, bread, crumpets, pancakes (home made sugar free), pitta bread, tortilla wrap, naan, chapati/paratha, poppadom, flat bread pizza, baguette, bread sticks, variety of crackers (both white and whole grain), pastry (eg home made pie or tart, occasionally something from the bakery like a sausage roll or cheese pasty), yorkshire pudding, stuffing, muffins (home made sugar free made with things like carrots, sweet potato, banana, dried fruit), oaty chews (home made sugar free, oats and fruits made into a snack bar), home baked cakes (sugar free), occasionally a shop bought desert/trifle/cheesecake/fruitcake/scone
dried fruit (sultanas, apple, apricot, prune, fig, occasionally cranberries but they are sweetened)
fresh fruit apple, pear, banana, cherries, strawberries, raspberries, blackberries, plums, blueberries,  mandarin/clementine/satsuma, peach, apricot, melon (any variety), mango, kiwi, grapes (red, black, green)
herbs and spices, salad dressing (eg olive oil with white wine vinegar and garlic), 2 or 3 times per week a half teaspoon of condiments such as tom ketchup, mayo, cranberry sauce, apple sauce, sweet pickle or brown sauce, a variety of home made sauces such as gravy, pasta sauce, curry, stew, cheese sauce etc, rarely jam (shop bought, sugar and artificial sweetener free),
He has a shop bought biscuit or two (like a fig roll made of figs and pastry) less than once per week. He has a piece or two of chocolate about twice per year, never eats sweets ever, less than once per month eats a few crisps (would be at a birthday party or special picnic outing), at the few birthday parties he has been to he's had jelly, ice cream and cake.

Hmmm...I think that's most of it.

He won't eat mashed potato or rice - these things he is offered and refuses, once in a while he will ask for a taste and still not like it, he has never liked mashed food or rice, ever.
He doesn't like green peppers, butter beans, short stemmed broccoli, cauliflower - these things I can ask him to eat a bite and he will but I don't push it as it is a sincere dislike.
He likes a variety of nuts but I very rarely offer nuts (only 2 or 3 nuts and less than once per month) as it results in diarrhoea, however I do add coconut, ground almonds, flaked almonds and peanut butter in cooking which appears not to have a negative effect.  He is fine for example if I make naan with ground almonds and sultanas mixed through or cake or pancakes with ground almonds.
A year ago the range of meat and fish would not have been as extensive but it was something I was constantly aiming to increase.  He ate egg every morning for breakfast because that's how I worked out how to get protein into him. From 6 months to 2yo+ I made a lot of bean burgers, fritters, felafel, lentil patties type things (back then he refused anything made of kidney bean, he'd try it and spit out clearly not liking the taste or texture, but many other beans went down well, it was trial and error to discover which were acceptable and which spices he preferred) and experimented every week with fish and fish fingers.

Well, depending on your personal diet and beliefs about food types this may or may not be a list of healthy foods which is what you asked for, but it's what we eat, it's what DS eats.

[delancepants]

Thanks Tinkerbell99, that's really helpful.  Yes you're right about the first meal being sugar/water, I hadn't thought of it like that, I guess I've been too tired / busy, my poor old brain doesn't work too well these days!  Well yes the gathia/besan papdi aren't quite as bad as the bombay mix we get at home but it is still deep fried, so major negative point there.  You're right about the pediasure, he has slept much better the last couple of nights since capping his nap and I think maybe he doesn't need it at all.  I'm not ready to go cold turkey, it's not fair to everyone else in the family to subject them to the disturbance, but I can still proceed with watering it down and who knows he may even be off it quicker that way!!  I have started and now he's eating much better at breakfast.  Still picky of course, that will take longer to break, but I did manage to get mango/banana/milk ice pops into him this morning - hooray!  The first sign of real fruit in ages and dairy too!

Wow, creations how did you manage to get your DS to eat such a wide range of healthy foods!!  You must be supermum!  I joke, but actually DS1 ate very healthily before we moved to India.  He had never eaten even a mouthful of chocolate, sweets, crisps or any junk before our first visit to India.  Once DS2 came along and we moved here everything went downhill.  It's the fact that neither of them will try new foods that really bugs me, because it's difficult to increase their range of healthy foods when they won't even try things. 

I'm very encouraged by everyone's feedback and I'm just going to get rid of the junk from the house as much as possible.  If it's not here they can't eat it.

MasynSpencerElliotte - how do you get your kids to try new things?  Mine are very bad at it and even when I'm offering them something delicious that they loved last year and telling them how yummy it is, like mango for example, they still won't take it!!  My general policy when we were back in ireland was to never have junk in the house, but here I have to keep some for visitors and the maids.  Chocolate is not one of those things though (it started as bribery for DS1 to eat healthy foods at dinner, and it worked for a while, but now he seems to be getting better at eating the healthier stuff anyway) and we've just run out, so I've decided not to buy any more.

[TB9]

To get my kids to try new things I just have to ask dd1 to try it once, and if she doesnt like it then she doesnt have to eat it.  She will take a taste, and if she doesnt like it we dont make a big deal about it and she just eats the rest of the food available at the meal.  If dh and i like the food then i will often make it again, and ask dd1 to try it each time we eat it with the hopes she will like it.  DD2 also will try, but she is much pickier in what she likes...I have been offering banana at breakfast for her at least 3x per week for about 6months now...and she is FINALLY starting to take bites from the whole banana, but will not eat it if I cut up pieces for her, lol. 

Just keep offering, it can take some time, but they will start trying different things!

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

DD1 will always take a taste when asked (even just to lick something) but with DD2 for a while we would give her very tiny portions of her favourites from what I had cooked for that meal and when she wanted more we would say "if you taste xyz, then you can have more". Again even if she just licked it that was fine (key being the favourite food was something reasonably healthy!).

[Buttonbobs]

We've used the same process as Heidi with our DD and I would recommend it - after 2 years of eating solids and having broccoli 2 times a week (it's DH's favourite) And refusing to eat more than lick a bit, she ate a whole floret and then said "more broccoli please mummy"...I was astounded.

My advice is offer and try not to worry if it's eaten or not. Good luck

[creations]

Like others I just keep giving DS foods he doesn't like alongside foods he does like and eventually it becomes familiar enough to try a bite if asked. I don't always ask him to try a bite of something totally new that he has never seen before if he doesn't look interested but often he'll just ask what it is and give it a try.
There are things I tried so many times, broccoli was one, he just wouldn't have it at all, I always made sure he had other green vegetables that he would eat on his plate to compensate.  Then one day DP bought long stemmed broccoli and DS refused, I cut the flower head off and asked him to try it, told him it's a bit like asparagus, he ate the full stem and took another serving. It turned out it was just the texture of the flower head he couldn't cope with.  More time passed and he will now eat the flower head too (although still doesn't much enjoy it like he does other food).
There are many things I've told DS are 'like' something else, perhaps the funniest was after he'd had a couple of crisps at a party I gave him highly seasoned (not with salt though) and well roasted crunchy chicken skin and told him "it's like wet crisps" - wet crisps!  anyway he ate it. now I know most people throw the skin away but this really was my 'in' he never ate chicken, barely a bite anyway, so over time I left more and more bits of the actual chicken on his skin and now he eats chicken without the skin.  A gradual process.  It took a lot of effort to get DS eating a decent amount of protein, with many surprises along the way.
He also likes to dip and that was a good way to try new things or eat more of something.

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

Dips are a great way to get veg in DD1, she will try most things with a bit of dip. DD2 not so much. There are things thay have tasted that they outright refuse, which after at least a taste I let go because after all there are things I have tried that I wont touch with a ten foot pole!

[delancepants]

Wow, my kids will mostly just refuse even to taste new things.  Completely the opposite to DH and I, we’re quite adventurous, so we find it quite frustrating when they won’t even try.  We don’t make a big deal out of it though, we’re just hoping in  time that they’ll follow our role model in terms of eating. 
Creations that is a brilliant tip about the wet crisps, I used it the other day with DS1, I told him the chickpeas on his plate tasted like chickpeas in ketchup (which essentially they were, homemade tomato sauce) and he actually deigned to take a bite!!  He didn’t eat any more but at least he tried it and without me even asking him to! 
Yeah I found dips were great when DS1 was small, I used to make my own homemade ones.  I don’t really like to use the readymade dips here as they’re so loaded with salt and additives.  We have a few which aren’t so bad, but DS2 just wants the dip without the food and just licks it off the food or sticks his fingers in it and licks them off.  Sigh.
I’ve had a few successes over the last few days though, the mango banana milk ice lollies have gone down a treat with both kids which is great.  They’ve both been coping with the withdrawal of junk easier than I expected and I’ve been forging ahead with reducing the pediasure.  DS1 is now eating much better at breakfast but the rest of the day can be hit and miss.  Luckily his sleep doesn’t seem to have been affected so far.  I also offered a ‘snack pot’ dinner tonight, where I placed out various little pots of healthy stuff and the kids picked out what they wanted.  It went down a treat with DS1.
I started reading the Deceptively Delicious thread, but so far it just seems to be a discussion about the book, but there haven’t been many tips in the thread.  I don’t think I can afford the book right at the moment – can anyone tell me if it’s worth reading on in that thread – are there useful tips in there or is it just more discussion of the book?

[weaver]

Don't know about the thread, sorry, but have to say well done, sounds like you are taking the bull by the horns!

As for DS2 just wanting the dip etc, that really is normal, crazy two year old behaviour.  Just grab your patience in both hands and offer it again tomorrow. 

[TB9]

So glad things are improving!  Well done 

My ped said that the appetite of toddlers is like a roller coaster, up and down, up and down.  I certainly found it to be true with dd1!  Some days she really did only get one good meal a day.  Now she generally gets two good meals in, and one meal is not so great, I try not to fight it and just go with it.  If you keep offering he will eat if he is hungry 

[creations]

Sounds like you are determined

With the dips, is it possible to make things like hummus, guacamole (avocado), baba ganush (aubergine), red kidney bean dip etc so that what he dips into is a really 'good' dip?  I'm more thinking easy version of the 'real' thing though to save you too much work as it's a lot to do to follow a full recipe for only a tiny bit to be used as a dip.  It wouldn't matter then if he wanted just the dip.
Cream cheese is a great dip on it's own, if you stir it to slacken it off or add a drop of milk.
Also I can give mine just lemon juice to dip in, ha ha, he thinks it's special

I haven't read the thread you refer to, I actually did do a little hiding of food (sweet potato muffins, bean and vegi burgers) as he needed a 'snack' the size of lunch when he was younger and we were out and about and I didn't want it all to be fruit, making my own fish fingers also proved to be highly successful in the long term (not a quick fix though) but mostly I believe in hiding as little as possible.

What about shaped food? Would your LO go for food faces or animals for instance?  Again, I am not all that keen on making everything into a massive chore to shape it all for kids to eat, but most kids tend to love it.  Could be worth looking into?

Do you want to list some of the staple foods you can buy locally or list some of your family meals and see if we have any ideas to make them more toddler friendly?  I'm aware we could be advising this recipe or that and the ingredients may not be available.

[delancepants]

thanks guys!  yes creations, you hit the nail on the head, it's just too much work making dips, i've been trying to concentrate on the main part of the dinner so far.  (honestly, I just can't believe how busy it is with two kids, before I had kids I thought it would only be this busy if you were trying to be supermum, but personally i'm only just, actually often not even covering the basics and I'm still run of my feet every second of the day!! actually now we mention it is there anywhere on the forum i could get help with scheduling my day?)

I do make hummus already and I'm going to start making satay sauce (basically peanut butter with lemon juice, garlic and chilli stirred in) so I guess it's a start.  I actually used to givewhile  DS1 plain tomato puree as a dip when he was a baby and he loved it, even though it's so sour!!  Yes I also need a snack the size of lunch for outings, at the moment I'm struggling with that, but i don't have an oven, so that is really limiting.  I am going to start trying the shaped /faces thing.  DS1 was never fooled by it but I haven't tried yet with DS2.

Yes, suggestions would be more than welcome!  The healthy stuff here is basically red lentils, brown lentils, chickpeas, chickpea flour, yardlong beans, green peas, potatoes, tomatoes, pumpkin (but I don't know how to cook it, every time I do it it's not nice), peanuts, almonds and cashews (both expensive), raisins, dates, figs (very tough and chewy!).  Then there's rice, which is very poor nutritionally but they love it.  I've tried mixing other stuff in but most of the time they won't touch it like that.  There is brown rice but it's very mushy when cooked.  There's also pasta and noodles which they both like.  Then there's papaya, bananas, mango, watermelon.

[delancepants]

oh and also i bring haricot beans and butter beans from england, I still have a few left in the cupboard.

[creations]

is there anywhere on the forum i could get help with scheduling my day?

Yes!
Home Management and Organization

I also used to make a dip with tom puree, but I used a bit of water, oil or wine vinegar to slacken it off a bit. Not a big job, I just stirred a tiny amount in a cup.
Yogurt on it's own or with a bit of mint is a lovely dip.

What amount something like this for the pumpkin?
http://www.sbs.com.au/food/recipes/fried-pumpkin-balls
I haven't made this but it was little burgers/fritters like this that my DS ate a ton of for his large snack/lunch, I cooked in batches then stored in the fridge and just served them cold when we went out.  I never follow a recipe properly anyway as I never have the right things in so for instance I'd grate the pumpkin but then prob mix with onion and spices as there's zero chance of me having fresh mint and parsley in.  You could sub the plain flour for chickpea flour to make it more nutrition packed.
I made lots of lentil burgers, any left over vegetables mashed or whizzed and just formed into little patties then fried (do you have a blender?).
What about these pea fritters
http://mylovelylittlelunchbox.com/2013/07/01/pea-fritters/

I would image you could make some banana and raisin pancakes, I haven't tried with chickpea flour, but I have tried with ground almonds rather than regular flour and they are yum (can you get ground almonds? almond flour?). They are also great for a large snack.  If you start with a sweet pancake (not sugar but using banana and sultana - if you have a blender it makes them even sweeter) then later on you could use just about anything in a basic pancake mix. Not that I think kids food should all be sweet but it can help when coaxing kids into some new foods.

[delancepants]

Thanks for the links, they look nice, I bet DS1 will eat them.  I've been trying out the 'patty' theme lately but DS2 isn't impressed so far.  I guess we'll just have to stick with it over time and see how it goes.  I make chickpea flour raisin pancakes and also savoury chickpea pancakes already which seem to go down quite well.  I got a lot of new ideas for pancakes off the internet the other day so I'm quite positive about them as a pretty good staple going forward.

Right, off to check out home mgmt!

[delancepants]

Just checking in with an update for anyone following.

So two months have passed and we are doing great!  The first two weeks were tough, he basically started refusing to eat.  He lost a bit of weight and then he got sick and ate even less!!!  He was very skinny after all that and then we went to visit my mother in law and it was impossible to avoid the junk given by the relatives.  However I stuck to offering healthy foods at home and he must have got the message because when we got home he suddenly started eating better! 

The homemade smoothie ice creams have been a great success and also I discovered that he's much more likely to eat veggies, lentils, chickpeas etc if I put rice and soy sauce on top (ok the soy sauce isn't great, but i don't put salt in the rice when I cook it and I only put a tiny bit of soy sauce on).  But in general he is eating more healthy foods and more quantity of food.  I was thinking that he probably just needed a week or two for his tastebuds to adjust back to enjoying healthy foods.  He's not eating bombay mix any more and junk food has greatly reduced, he's still eating more than i would like but that's mostly due to the lack of healthy foods outside the house (we've been out a lot lately) and when we visit friends.  So over the last month he's managed to put on the 1kg that he lost from refusing food and being sick and now he's put on an extra 500g as well!

I've watered down the pediasure even more and he's still having it the early morning but the weather is cooler now so my older son can sleep in a separate bedroom while we get rid of it.  My husband returns from travelling tonight so I'm hoping we can cut that morning feed from tomorrow.  I have a couple of questions though - he will be hungry in the mornings (partly due to just being used to having the feed but also because he finds it difficult to eat when we're out of the house and then often is too tired/hyper to eat in the evenings) and he may well be waking up quite early while he gets used to the new routine so I need something quick and easy to feed him once we get up especially as I will be rushing to get DS1 ready for school.  I have a few ideas but wondered if anyone could suggest anything else?

thanks

[creations]

Sounds like things are moving in the right direction and you sound much happier with the progress

Could you prepare pancakes in advance and just offer them straight from the fridge in the morning? I always gave DS chilled pancakes from the fridge, he didn't mind although perhaps not all LOs like them that way.
Omelet are fast, would he eat one? It sounds like a drag but I make one for DS in the morning it takes 2 mins tops.

[TB9]

Yay!  Great update! 

DD2 has a scrambled egg every morning and it is very quick to make.  We went through a rough patch when dd1 wasnt eating breakfast very well, so I started keeping fresh fruit prepared in  the fridge.  I would just take it out of the fridge and set the containers down in front of her and she got to pick what went on her plate at breakfast time.

[delancepants]

well he doesn't seem to like eggs, pancakes and fruit we do already.  he will quite happily share DS1's green smoothie when he's really hungry, but the problem is that I'm not sure if he will even wait 5 minutes on some days when he's really hungry.  i'm still giving him the pediasure when he wakes up but i'm thinking maybe tomorrow i'll try holding him off with a few bites of banana while i'm making porridge or something.  i would really like to see a situation where he's not reliant on the pediasure.  i guess i'll have to experiment.  thanks again everyone!

[creations]

I would just stick to pancakes and fruit for super fast food in the morning, pre-made pancakes that is. I see no harm in having the same (or very similar) thing every day. Maybe just switch around the type of pancakes you make, some fruit, some chickpea, some almond, some vegi yk.
I made some cupcakes from beans recently, really yummy, taste like cake but nothing bad in there at all which I was thinking would make a great instant breakfast, but I think you said you don't have an oven - unless you know someone with an oven your could borrow to batch cook then freeze them.