6month old - still doing 2hr EASY

[sarahbears]

Thanks MSE, hopefully she will get it and I don't end up with Mastitis

Today started with an early wake up at 5am.  I fed her and put her back to bed. It took her a little bit but she went back to sleep

E: 5:00am

E: 7:40
A: 7:50am
S: 9:20am - woke after 30mins but resettled to sleep after 15mins and slept another 30mi

E: 10:45
A: 10:55
Solids: 11:50am
S: 12:45pm - woke after 50 mins, but went back to sleep after about 5min for 1hr and 10mins

E: 2:55pm
A: 3:05pm
S: 5:15pm - only 35 minutes

E: 5:55
Solids: 6:15
E: 6:44pm
S: 7:15pm

Getting better. She seems to be adapting to the change ok.  I'm hoping the afternoon/ evenings will get a little easier.  Was trying to fit so much into the last hour and she was tired.

[*Ali*]

Would she just eat solids when she wakes from the last CN and the have a BF at BT? That is a lot to fit in the last a time otherwise.

[sarahbears]

Hi Ali,  she had two small BF in that last wake up. I never use to feed her before putting her down for the night.  I'll see how I go when we get knto a bit more of a predictable routine......if she's only going to be up for an hour at the end of the day I'll only feed her once.


Feel like we've gone backwards today....her sleep was terrible and she woke over night.  So the day went lkie this :

E: 3:45am

E: 6:40am
A: 6:50
Solids 7:40am
S: put her down at 8:30, but didn't sleep to 8:40. Slept for 25mins, woke for 10 mins, slept for 15 mins more then woke again.  Left her in the cot until she called out.
So only about 45min sleep time.


E: 10:05am
A: 10:15am
S: put her down at 11:45 but didn't slept til 12. Slept for 30 mins, woke for 10, then slept for another 40.
So about an hour and 10min sleep time

E: 1:20pm
A: 1:30
S: put her down at 2:45 as she was really crank, she wouldn't settle so put in the pram and took her, DH and DS to park.  She slept for a bit, but probably less than an hour

E: 4:35pm
A:4:45pm
Solids: 5:15pm
E 6:00pm
S: 6:15.


Does it look like I need to change anything to get her to sleep longer? I am assuming she should be sleeping for about 1.5hrs for the first two naps and possibly a little shorter for the last one.

[*Ali*]

What is your plan at the moment? I still think she needs to be kept up much longer before her first nap. Looks like she was UT for that first nap. Then she got OT as the day went on because she didn't have a single restorative nap as she hadn't been awake long enough since the last nap. I would make sure you don't put her down before 2hrs for any of her naps and then extend that to 2hr15 for another few days before increasing again to 2hr30ish. I think you just need to take the plunge hun. One of her A times above was only 1hr25. That is a typical A time for a 3mo. It really is no wonder she couldn't fall asleep when you tried in the cot at 2.45pm 

Average at his age would be two long naps (e.g. 1.5hrs). Some LOs may also have a CN of 30-40 mins if moved late to 2 naps and/or are high sleep needs.

Normally babies get milk immediately before BT so they go down full and last longer overnight. I was just thinking if you could distract her with a little solid food after her last CN then she may well take a full feed at BT.

[Buntybear]

She seems to wake a lot at the 25/30 min mark - have you tried going in at 20 mins and seeing what is happening? You could try holding her through the jolts (HTTJ) or just putting a hand on her to settle her so she doesn't fully awake. Ot even wake to sleep (W2S) to see if you can get her out of that cycle?

[creations]

Does it look like I need to change anything to get her to sleep longer?

Here's a reminder of the average A times
Average A times- BOOKMARK ME!
At 6 months a LO would be staying awake and active for between 2hr 30 and 3hrs.  Low A times will perpetuate the short naps as she is just not tired enough to sleep well.  I agree with Ali to keep her up a minimum of 2hrs, then increase to 2hrs 15 and then 2hrs 30. This should take no more than a week to achieve. If you delay on this the average A time increases again and you'll still be playing catch up with A times and UT naps.  The A times for a 7 month old can be 3hrs 15 or even more, so you see if you go slow she will be 7 months and still on 2hrs or 2hr 30 A time instead of 3hr or more. The UT cycle will continue.

Here's a link for W2S and HTTJ as BB mentioned. It's a great method, but unlikely to be particularly successful on too short an A time. Whilst increasing the A times using this method can teach LO to transition into another sleep cycle.
How do I address habitual wakings? (wake-to-sleep and other methods)
The description says to go in at 30 mins but as BB advises you can go in earlier to catch her before she stirs.

I also agree on bringing the solids earlier, to after the CN. Many LOs prefer solids earlier and a good milk feed at BT.

hope this helps

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

Honestly I think the key to longer naps is more A time...average for 6.5 months is 2:45/3:15 & unless lo is super high sleep needs I cant see needing 2 naps and a catnap for much longer, if even now. It may take a bit for her to get used to but I imagine you would get 2 more restful naps that way than 3 naps interupted by wake ups.

[sarahbears]

Thank you all so much for your feedback. I really appreciate the support.

Ali, my plan was to get her settled on a 2hr activity and then push out the time from there, but as creations points out if I take too long to do it we'll be further behind.

I guess I've had a thing about going to or over the 2hr A time as it was her usual feed time and I thought it might cause a 'problem' trying to get her to settle for sleep when she may be expecting a feed.

Part of the problem of the first 30 min wake ip yesterday was my son being particularly noisy right at that time, we were trying to keep him quite, especially at that point,  but it didn't work.

When I put her down at 2:45 I was sYing to myself ' I shouldn't be doing this she needs to be up longer'. But I couldn't get her to be calm when she was up, Itried her with her favorite toy, and even just giving her a quite cuddle.  I thought she might be so OT that she might have a longer nap to catch up.

I'm a bit reluctant to drop the feed before solids as we have already drop 2 feeds in the day......and she has been waking for BF overnight....last night it was sometime after 11pm.......or is it a sign of OT. She also woke around 4am, but settled herself back to sleep before I could get up.

I'll aim to do A time of at least 2hr, 2hr 15min if I can.

Also, is there any info somewhere on managing 'conflicting' nap times to get out of the house........not quite sure how I will get out where her ' ideal' schedule, and my sons.

Thanks again

[*Ali*]

The longer her A times the more time you will have to get out

Maybe skip the solid feed in the last A time then. You co old reintroduce it when her last A time is longer maybe?

[sarahbears]

Just a quick update. I've kept her up for 2.15.

She stirred on the 15min mark and settked quickly.  Then at the 30 min mark she stretched o e arm and seemed to settled......then started to suck her fingers and then started stretching more then playing with the blanket and now she's wide awake.  I'm going to leave her for longer now to see if she'll go back to sleep.

She was definitely tired when I put her down, red eyebrows, wouldn't hold eye contact, jerky movements.

I'll try option 2 for the W2S, I'm assuming this looks like habitual waking rather than UT.  Although I wonder if she's hungry.

[Buttonbobs]

That still sounds like UT to me, and that would fit in with a 2hr15 A time, which as others have said above, is very short still. Don't give up yet, keep stretching those A times and you may not even need W2S. The waking probably is in part habitual but you won't have much luck with W2S while the naps are UT.

Be strong

[sarahbears]

I understand that the A time doesn't match the 'recommend' A time for her age, but she has more than DOUBLED her A time in the last few days.  And that's what I'm working on increasing.

You're telling me that if a baby can't focus on a face they are UT?  Can you point me to that information, cause I thought that was an OT sign.

Doesn't being OT also cause a baby to have issues sleeping?

When her A time was only an hour, she'd sleep a full hour, and then sleep through the whole night.  Now during the day she's NOT getting a solid hours sleep during the day.....and she's waking at night.

Yes I'm struggling

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

It is entirely possible that when she was having those short naps that she was just crashing out at night - my DD3 had really short naps from 4-16 weeks and sttn the whole time, once she sorted out her naps she started having more nw's.

Tbh by this age tired signs were not reliable for any of my kids! For sure the huge leap in A time will be an adjustment but I would persevere as it really should result in more restorative naps. Oh there is also a growth spurt around this age, and then always those developmental leaps that can cause nw's too.

[creations]

There are quite a lot of signs that can appear OT but actually be due to UT. Mine showed signs that could easily be interpreted as OT when he was UT and the only answer was longer A times.
Sleep habits can change rapidly too so what seems to be a settled routine can very quickly go right off track if the tweaks aren't made rapidly.

As Naomi says, stay strong.

[*Ali*]

They do get OT when extending A times which is why we say to do it gradually. So one longer A time won't solve her napping issues.  That will take time. Her body will be tired with the longer A times because it is used to sleeping little and often right now. A one hour nap is still not a restorative nap because it wouldn't allow her to complete 2 full sleep cycles.  If you think she may be hungry then I would feed her more.  You could offer milk in a sippy with the solid food perhaps or mix the milk in with the food if it is cereal or puree for example.