How do I know if it's trouble transitioning or UT/OT?

[Sparkleywoo]

Hi there - my baby is 14 weeks and has never napped for longer than 50 minutes strait. He often tends to wake up at exactly 37 minutes!

What I'm trying to find out is whether this is likely because he can't transition - even though I know he can self settle (although with a bit of grizzling - so maybe he's not quite relaxed enough to do it between sleep cycles) or whether it's that he's UT or OT - because it's 37 minutes it's exactly between the 30/45 minute guidelines given in the A time guide. Is there any way of knowing?

Thanks x

[weaver]

Different lengths of short naps mean different things, as you know.  In this case, I would lay money that he is not OT!  37 minutes is likely to be his full sleep cycle.  So, he might be UT, and you need to lengthen A time, or he might need help learning to transition between cycles.  How you do know the difference? Usually by his behaviour after he wakes up.  Does he wake up happy and refreshed? Or is he grizzly?  Of course, it might not be the same every time so it's good to take notes for a few days and see if you can spot a pattern.

Have a look here, from the FAQs:
Average A times- BOOKMARK ME!!
Teaching Sleep- Tips from the boards

[Sparkleywoo]

Well I think he was definately under tired when I put him to bed for his nap this morning as yesterday I kept him up for an hour and a half and he napped for 50 minutes this morning I tried and hour and 10 and only got about 35... I then put him back to sleep after 1hr (so as to reduce by 30 mins as per guide you posted) and he slept for 53.

He then woke again - was quiet rather than grizzly so as this was longer than 45 minutes thought he might be done so got him up - not so apparently! He was hungry so fed him but then he tried to fall asleep on the boob and when I took him off he did OT cry so I've put him back to bed and he's now back to sleep!!

It seems that I have a combination of all 3! It's a bit of a nightmare to know when to get him up and when to leave him! I might just try leaving him in his COT if he wakes up after say 50 mins as this is prob a transition thing - he must be storing from light sleep right?

Do all these shorter/ split naps accumulate to stop him from being overtired?

Thanks x

[Sparkleywoo]

Can you recommend any thing I can do to help him transition? Have tried to shh pat but jus seems to get him in a state as too much interference and w2s just doesn't appear to work!

He tends to wake and mantra cry so I just leave him and he falls asleep again but normally only for a few minutes or so and then wakes (assume with a startle). Although yesterday when I left him he did this a few times and then slept for another 30 odd and woke happy. Maybe best to just leave him to figure it out! Maybe he'll get better and better until he just doesn't wake at all!

Sorry if I'm going into too much detail! Just looking for advice from someone more experienced!

Thanks

[weaver]

Detail is always good, don't worry

There's a thing called a UT/OT loop where you get a UT nap and then because of the UT nap, you subsequently get OT.  What a pain!

Seems clear that getting A time right has helped him.  I'm wondering if he needs slightly more than 1 hr 30.  Would you try 1 hr 35, or 40? Rather than patting, you could just lay a hand on him, or try a soothing noise.  If he's mantra-ing, then I'd say you're doing the right thing to leave him.  Listen, and if he's calling for you, go and help him, but if he's happy enough, then leave him to figure it out.  You're right, he will get it, and sooner rather than later, most likely. 

[Sparkleywoo]

Ok - had an absolute nightmare of a (non existent) nap this afternoon. I thought I had figured out the mantra cry but then I panicked and doubted myself - and intervened when he woke up 52 mins into his nap. I tried to shh an pat but it just ended up with him escalating into a massive episode that lasted for about and hour. Managed to calm him but so over tired that he just couldn't settle. He doesn't like to be swaddled and clearly she pat doesn't work for him so I left him in his cot for a bit - he was really fussing and kicking and flailing - I felt terrible so picked him up and fed him a little to calm him down. I stopped before he was asleep as I really don't want to have gone through all of this for nothing. He started to protest so I put him in his CoT. He's now settled fairly quickly and gone off to sleep.

Do you think that I have undone all my hard work by feeding him - this is the second time this has happened wen I've intervened - I'm either just gonna have to leave him in future and assume he's ok or just go back to feeding him to sleep - but if he is really crying and I'm just ignoring him then I'll feel terrible  - don't want o do him any damage - and scared that he'll end up hating me! urghhh - this Is so hard!!