6MO A TIME

[3littlemen]

After a 12hour night, 2h30 gives us a 35min... that's ot right?

[ZacsMumme]

Not always...they were ut in this house

If you had a good night and your not pushing A times a lot already I'd say it's ut or teething or developmental. Could you resettle?

The A time isnt high by all means for 6 mths

[3littlemen]

turns out is was 30m not 35m... first nap seems stuck on 30m regardless of a time so I'm wondering that it might either be habitual
(is that possible?) or ut? might tryw2s...

normally an a time of 2.30-3hr after a 30m will only get us a 1 hour 2nd nap... usually wakes happy from both. In saying that he is getting grumpy now at 2h17. Can you have learned a times? (ie. used to going to bed at a certain time and needs to get 'busted out' of the habit?

we were dealing with ews from 3.34am onwards (habitual) and I think I have realised that if he isn't fed he can't get him back to sleep... Have stopped the habitual waking and working on resettling himself (shpat) but again, he's not waking up crying just talking.

[3littlemen]

just watched him and he did a massive jolt on the 30m mark... ??

he was getting grumpy and no change of scenery would fix it. He was awake 9.52-12.33 (2h40) but in his cot from 12.15. I yanked his dummy out when he first nodded off (sometimes he sleeps with it in, others out - he can find it and put it in himself anyhow) and he just jolted, opened his eyes and closed them again). He is attempting to crawl, had needles a week ago (with no reactions) and as far as I know isn't teething (though has two teeth).
 We've also started solids but I wouldn't say he's getting enough to count yet. He bf's 4hrly, 6.30/10.30/2.30/6.30 or so.
I was thinking his a time was a little short if anything...

[3littlemen]

bumping for myself...

last night he had heaps of OT wakeups as he wouldn't do a CN and I ended up with a whopping a time before bt....

 he was able to be replugged up until l4.14 (waking talking at each one) I offered a sip at this one, but it wasn't enough for him to go back to sleep and he stayed awake (I'm guessing - I heard him at 4.50, 5.28 when he had a poo)...

 Once out of his cot from then, I waited for any cues for bt, and got none... not a grizzle. put him in his bed at 7.30 he nodded off at 7.42 and woke 8.17 - I'm guessing regardless of no cues, he should have been in bed earlier.... it has taken 45m before he's grumpy and requiring settling..

second nap today he was pretty grumpy after 2hr45? or so (wouldn't let me leave or put him down to change him - that grumpy! unheard of!) and then he cried a lot settling down for his sleep and slept bang on 1hr05....a little grizzling but now talking to himself...

for at least the last week, if not more, the first nap has been 30m (a times have been 2h50-3h) and the second has been 1h05 neat ( a times 2h30-40) but hard to tell as in the beginning he had some really really EW....
anyone??? any ideas???

[creations]

Hi there. Sorry you have been waiting for a reply. I'm just going to read through your thread now and will respond fully.

[creations]

I'm wondering that it might either be habitual
(is that possible?) or ut? might tryw2s...

Can you have learned a times? (ie. used to going to bed at a certain time and needs to get 'busted out' of the habit

Yes it is possible to have learned nap times and learned wake up times (or nap length). If you've been on a 2hr 15 or 2hr 30 A time for a while for instance then LO can show signs of tiredness approaching this time out of habit, getting ready for a nap. At that point you can distract with a change of activity or change of scene to achieve the longer A time you need.  I think you're on the right track, possibly a bit UT, a slightly longer A time could help as could W2S. Keep in mind W2S is going to be more successful on the right A time.  You might want to increase the A by 10 mins first and see what happens without W2S for a couple of days - perhaps go in and observe and be ready to help resettle rather than a full W2S.

we were dealing with ews from 3.34am onwards (habitual) and I think I have realised that if he isn't fed he can't get him back to sleep... Have stopped the habitual waking and working on resettling himself (shpat) but again, he's not waking up crying just talking.

Sorry I'm not totally sure here is you mean you have successfully stopped the EW/NWs or if they are continuing.  Could you post a full day EAS times including the NWs and I'll see if anything stands out?

He is attempting to crawl, had needles a week ago

These are both things that can disturb sleep. I'm afraid at this age there are so many different things going on at once it is often difficult to really pin point where the difficulty is coming from.  Mine more often disturbed night sleep rather than naps when he had developmental leaps.  And some of the jabs can show side effects even several weeks later. Did you get an information sheet about side effects and when they may show up?

[ZacsMumme]

Sorry Hun, I haven't had much of a chance to BW as T is sick
Creations has given you some great advice.

Can you resettle the 30 min naps?

[3littlemen]

Thanks for your replies...
Firstly our EAS....
28/04
NW2.50-3.20?
NF 4.50
Awake 6.40
E 6.40
S9.16-9.50
E10.25
S (in at 12.15) 12.33-1.40
E 2.30
grizzly from 3.45 but would not nap
Bath and then E 5.45
S 5.50
E8 (Don't normally do this but as his BT was so early...)
DF 10
NW 6.25,7.10, 2 something (OT I'm guessing)

29/4
NW 4.10, still up 4.50, 5.20
NF 4.15
still awake at 6
E6
S 7.42-8.17happy
E 9.50
Scrying before settled 11-12
E2
S 2.58-4.30 (w2s at 3.20)
E5.45
E6.10
in at 6.30
S 6.45?
DF 10
NW 8.30, 3.44

Today
NW/F3.44 don't think he went back to sleep until 5.50??
Woke 6.15
E6.15
Sin at 8.45, asleep by himself 9.10-10.10(W2s at9.28) not happy but tried to resettle and smiling gloriously now...

He was HW at 3.34 for a week or so last week, which I busted with W2S, I also discovered if I didn't feed him at whatever time he woke, he was more likely to stay awake until get up time. That doesn't seem to matter now, which makes me think he doesn't wake for a feed. He doesn't wake at night time crying, just straight out talking - which is how he wakes in the morning normally.

Needles don't seem to worry him, he's past the time bracket for reactions now too.

Can't resettle 30m as wakes happy. The odd time he does an hour/1h05 he might be initially grumpy (like he was just now) but I can't resettle as he goes to happy mode straight away!

If nothing else, I am extremely blessed to have had 3 boys all the same......very darn happy! And tired cues, well... unless he's extremlely OT I don't get them... so a time is a wing and a prayer and a guess! (hence why I put him in and he nods off when he's ready!)

other points to note - he has started solids but does a lot more spoon refusal than eating so I doubt that he's eating much... maybe a taste but that would be generous... Also he had his op Mar 24, and prior to this I know he was waking at 3, but I thought going back to sleep.. not sure. Since coming home from hospital we have worked on replugging if necessary rather than feeding at night (2hr observ's caused havoc plus vomitting due to GA so little feeds often to try and get something into him) and these have evened out to being sporadic (except til they developed into the 3.34am habit).

his bf's have always been quick, about 10-12min tops. He's got two sets of forearms fatrolls so weight gain good, though he's getting less interested in bfs - not even having a go at 2nd side anymore, 5-7mins tops

SOrry to hear that T is sick - hope you have a full recovery soon.

[creations]

Wow, things are pretty hard for you there at the moment with all those NWs, the NF and the looong NW too, plus short naps! Really feeling for you!
So, I think what I'd do is push that A time to 3hrs right away regardless of nap length. I see you are aiming for 2hr 30/40 and up to 3hr A time but I think you are also reducing the A at times due to the short naps to try to avoid OT, which is the normal thing to do. However, in this case I don't see some OT making it worse iyswim because you are already settling for 3 naps, trying W2S, trying to resettle then up half the night too.  From WU (which I know starts as a NW you can't resettle) I would do first A 3hrs, if possible be close by to resettle an OT nap or to W2S.  Regardless of nap length do second A 3hrs, W2S again if you can.  See where it gets you in the day and aim for a shorter 3rd A to try to avoid the OT NWs.  I'd continue for 3 days to see if he settles into it. On day 4 stop W2S and see what happens.
What do you think?

I suspect he might need either the first or second A time to be a bit longer than 3hrs for another tweak in a few days. You might be able to judge if that's on the cards.
hth. I can see you all need some sleep there! x

[3littlemen]

So another one of THOSE nw/ew... again at 3.40am so I'm thinking its still a habit somewhere there... ended up trying a feed to see if that would send him off to nod land, but no... so I went and camped inDS2's bed with him!! with the pillow over my head as I could still hear DS3!!

I tried something a little different today, figured if his a time is about 3hr or so, put him down 3.40+3.....

Today's Easy
nw 3.40
e4.20
in at 6.40
S7-7.30
E 7.35 not interested overly,
8ish offered solids, showed some interest for a change
S in at 9.17, 9.27-11.35 (HOLY COW BATMAN!!!) did stir at 10.08 but put himself back to sleep
E11.40 not overly interested,
12.30ish offered solids,
S in at 1.30 as grizzly, 1.42-2.55 (wow!)
E offered again, n.o.i
3.30ish offered solids
grizzly from around 4.45 or so but out in pram
5.15 tried for a nap (arms and legs flailing about so I'm guessing ot or os)
5.30 offered solids which he seemed to take a bit of
5.45 bath
5.50 bf - Super feed...
6.05 asleep

By not overly interested he only took one side. I didn't know what to do as such, so thought I'd try just on guesswork (namely 2hr a time once upon a time gave him a good nap!) I think i'll do w2s tonight for three nights... it's got to be a habit, for the same time each night right?

[creations]

Well, that's totally stumped me!
2hr ish A time and he's slept like a trooper!  Speechless.
(other than to say - way to go mummy, you knew exactly what to do )

[ZacsMumme]

Well, that's totally stumped me!
2hr ish A time and he's slept like a trooper!  Speechless.
(other than to say - way to go mummy, you knew exactly what to do )

This!

Also this 'could' poss be teething. We have unsettled days then very sleepy ones when a tooth is close  to cutting x

[3littlemen]

Not sure on the teething. We got our two bottom ones within a day of each other, but when he was recovering from his GA so can't say what it's like... we were vomiting, not eating up all hours with nurses etc... who knows what belonged to what!

well I was woken by DS1 at 1.50am so thought I'd w2s then and get a few more hours sleep in...wrong. DS3 woke completely..... I think at some point he got worked up enough that he even let out a little cry, but I don't know what time that was. All I know is that he was awake. a lot. I even tried cuddling and rocking him with the very optimistic hope that i could APOP him to sleep. Yup, no luck. Maybe 4.50? again he let out a little cry at some other point (neither of which would be considered crying more a 'anybody out there?'. If he gave it a little more choke he might have turned it into a proper cry!!

So no night feeds from 9pm. I offered bf this morning, he drank one side and proceeded to bite the other. Oh the joys! Weetbix here we come. I think some big boys might be watching a movie at lunch time today.... mumma needs a rest!

[3littlemen]

Well we managed to get rid of the habitual waking I think, by shortened a times in the day and more naps, as well as pushing bt out to 7.30.
after a great night (few uniterested nf's) at 4/5, he slept til 6.30 (ok, in our bed, but it was cold). Offered feed at6.30, one side. In at 8.30, slept 8.40 til 9.15.
Uninterested feed at 10.15.

Anyone? this is nuts.